Why I Believe
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26-04-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Why I Believe
Can I simply decide not to believe?

I honestly do not know what I believe. I didn't even think that was possible, but it's the truth. I could say to myself "Ok, I can't deny it any longer, I am an atheist." Not sure I'd believe that though.

Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

That's why I enquired about faith and belief.

To all ex-Christians out there, how did it all pan out for you, when did you know you no longer believed, and how did you get over the fear of hell?

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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26-04-2017, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2017 12:50 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Why I Believe
Quote:Can I simply decide not to believe?

I honestly do not know what I believe. I didn't even think that was possible, but it's the truth. I could say to myself "Ok, I can't deny it any longer, I am an atheist." Not sure I'd believe that though.

Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

That's why I enquired about faith and belief.

To all ex-Christians out there, how did it all pan out for you, when did you know you no longer believed, and how did you get over the fear of hell?

I stopped believing in Christianity when I realized, above all... facts and history aside, that God was a dick. It wasn't a decision so much as a realization that it wasn't true, and that I was only kidding myself if I tried to believe in it from here on out. Once you lose your belief, it's impossible to get it back without Jesus or God coming down and telling you to believe in it, essentially. Because you realize it is ultimately just not true, and that you've been duped.

But yeah, God, as presented in the Bible, is an asshole.

It's nonsense. The amount of people God had killed raped and tortured, both directly and indirectly, throughout the old and new testaments... is disgusting. When I discovered that no matter how you slice it, I was more moral than God (why did he not at least condemn slavery. That, bare minimum, would have been groundbreaking 'maybe this is true' type evidence for us later. But nope,) that's when I was truly done.

Consider now because of your fear of hell that he may send it to you anyways. How can you develop a loving relationship with this being at this point? Is belief really the only factor that matters? Or do you also need to experience the religious effect of brainwashing to go to this highly selective place called heaven that 99/100 beings throughout human history aren't going to? I say this not to frighten you further but so that you realize it's just a religion. Wherever you're born... pretty much there's your religion. If they all disappeared the same day 4000 years ago, by 2017 they would have risen up completely differently. If all scientific knowledge disappeared on the same day 4000 years ago, by 2017 we would have discovered many, if not more (dark ages) of the EXACT SAME scientific principles that we have already discovered. This is because science is based on facts, while religion is based on anecdotes.

Cheers!

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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26-04-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

If you don't believe it happened, then how can you have "faith" it did? It's a pretty non-sensical statement.
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26-04-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: Why I Believe
Fuck, I can't keep these threads straight. Copy/paste just makes me feel like I'm stealing my own thunder. Undecided fuck it ...
---


So SeaJay, you actually want there to be a god to watch you masturbate. I mean, that is what you are saying, pretty much. But hey - whatever you're into. Dodgy

The things you are trying to do ... it just keeps the nonextstent/god/fear/phobia/anylameexcuse in charge. You are letting it call the shots. You are giving it power - just by letting it be - you keep it happening.

Only you can stop it. Nothing outside of you; no history, no dirt encrusted, million year old trinket, no spooky writing from any ancient, long dead civilization.
Nothing outside of you.
You.
***

DIVORCE.
And I don't mean that bullshit of, "Oh, we're still friends" and "let's split up the record albums." and "I'll keep this car and you can have that one."... NO. I'm talking zero contact - move to another country & learn another language kind of divorce.
YOU. Take charge.

Divorce yourself from religious bullshit completely.

If, as you say, "some thought pops into" your head ... well then, you are in control ... you push it out.

It is your mind and you are in charge of it. Nothing but you.

These are exercises for your mind.
These are exercises to constantly practice and to consciously practice.


Disabuse yourself of the abuse you continually inflict upon yourself.

This will help you to grow up.

Boo. Evil_monster


There. Scary, huh? Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-04-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 12:06 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

If you don't believe it happened, then how can you have "faith" it did? It's a pretty non-sensical statement.
You think so? I'm not so sure.

Perhaps you're right. Or perhaps I just described blind faith

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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26-04-2017, 12:13 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 12:08 PM)kim Wrote:  Fuck, I can't keep these threads straight. Copy/paste just makes me feel like I'm stealing my own thunder. Undecided fuck it ...
---


So SeaJay, you actually want there to be a god to watch you masturbate. I mean, that is what you are saying, pretty much. But hey - whatever you're into. Dodgy

The things you are trying to do ... it just keeps the nonextstent/god/fear/phobia/anylameexcuse in charge. You are letting it call the shots. You are giving it power - just by letting it be - you keep it happening.

Only you can stop it. Nothing outside of you; no history, no dirt encrusted, million year old trinket, no spooky writing from any ancient, long dead civilization.
Nothing outside of you.
You.
***

DIVORCE.
And I don't mean that bullshit of, "Oh, we're still friends" and "let's split up the record albums." and "I'll keep this car and you can have that one."... NO. I'm talking zero contact - move to another country & learn another language kind of divorce.
YOU. Take charge.

Divorce yourself from religious bullshit completely.

If, as you say, "some thought pops into" your head ... well then, you are in control ... you push it out.

It is your mind and you are in charge of it. Nothing but you.

These are exercises for your mind.
These are exercises to constantly practice and to consciously practice.


Disabuse yourself of the abuse you continually inflict upon yourself.

This will help you to grow up.

Boo. Evil_monster


There. Scary, huh? Shy
Ultimately it's down to me

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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26-04-2017, 12:25 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

Sure. Just see it for the metaphor it is. Buddhism's got bodhi, Hindus got moksha, Christians got the resurrection. Just a metaphor for awakening or transcending. Christians take their shit too literally. Not sure why they have to explicitly be told it's a parable to recognize it as one. Except for the begats and begots and the do this don't do that boring stuff, it's all parables. Everything Jesus said and did was a parable. To take them literally is to like miss the message. They miss the lesson for the details. Like too busy focusing on the particular values of the variables to understand the function.

#sigh
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26-04-2017, 12:25 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 12:13 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Ultimately it's down to me

Yep.

You did ask:
"Can I simply decide not to believe?"

Your answer:
(26-04-2017 12:13 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  Ultimately it's down to me

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-04-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 12:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Is it possible to say "I don't believe in the resurrection but I have faith in the resurrection"? That's how it is. I don't literally believe it, but I have faith it occurred.

Sure. Just see it for the metaphor it is. Buddhism's got bodhi, Hindus got moksha, Christians got the resurrection. Just a metaphor for awakening or transcending. Christians take their shit too literally. Not sure why they have to explicitly be told it's a parable to recognize it as one. Except for the begats and begots and the do this don't do that boring stuff, it's all parables. Everything Jesus said and did was a parable. To take them literally is to like miss the message. They miss the lesson for the details. Like too busy focusing on the particular values of the variables to understand the function.
I was thinking this the other day funnily enough. What if they're just fables and parables told to get across certain truths.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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26-04-2017, 12:54 PM
RE: Why I Believe
(26-04-2017 12:47 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 12:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sure. Just see it for the metaphor it is. Buddhism's got bodhi, Hindus got moksha, Christians got the resurrection. Just a metaphor for awakening or transcending. Christians take their shit too literally. Not sure why they have to explicitly be told it's a parable to recognize it as one. Except for the begats and begots and the do this don't do that boring stuff, it's all parables. Everything Jesus said and did was a parable. To take them literally is to like miss the message. They miss the lesson for the details. Like too busy focusing on the particular values of the variables to understand the function.
I was thinking this the other day funnily enough. What if they're just fables and parables told to get across certain truths.

What do you mean "what if?" Of course they are.

#sigh
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