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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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12-08-2014, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 03:00 PM by hbl.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 02:09 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Please provide a source for all that. I have yet to find a source that agrees with any of those dates you are using. Your dates differ from biblical scholars by 10's to 100's of years.

The reason was given so you would need to overturn the reason.

Quote:As far as Jesus being the most document person, he is far from it. There is only the gospels, if they are even true. Of which only two are considered to be original, the other two are consider recompositions. Lots of versions of the same book does not increase the documentation.

For someone that follows a religion of peace and love you are a hate filled person. I hope you find peace one day.

You're just projecting your own hate onto me. I love my enemy for I would not even want you to go to Hell so that you would receive the gospel of salvation.

We have 45 sources for Jesus 17 of which are non-Christian. You can take any ten figures combined and Jesus has more sources written about Him.

The eyewitness testimony is true for people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. And they set up the first churches on their testimony seeing Jesus resurrected.

Paul spent 15 days with Peter who gave him the gospel, and so did James and John in 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2. Almost all scholars consider this Paul's genuine writings and the most trustworthy of all his writings. So it goes all the way back to the cross. Paul was converted 2 years after the cross. Second generation Apostles such as Clement of Rome and Polycarp in extra-Biblical sources said they knew Peter and John personally who of course gave the same gospel message.

All copies upon copies of the Bible contain the same doctrines and any differences are merely different punctuation or different words to express the same point.

As you date copies upon copies you can test the integrity by observing there were no changes from the earliest still surviving papyri from the late 1st and 2nd centuries. And you can go to the early church fathers in the late 1st and 2nd centuries in which they quoted all the verses of the NT except for 11 verses to show the NT except for Revelation was completed within a decade or two after the cross, and certainly before the Neronian persecutions 65 AD when the authors of the NT were martyred. It's sort of difficult to write your books if you have already died. Revelation was completed 95 AD.
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12-08-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 02:53 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 02:09 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Please provide a source for all that. I have yet to find a source that agrees with any of those dates you are using. Your dates differ from biblical scholars by 10's to 100's of years.

The reason was given so you would need to overturn the reason.

Quote:As far as Jesus being the most document person, he is far from it. There is only the gospels, if they are even true. Of which only two are considered to be original, the other two are consider recompositions. Lots of versions of the same book does not increase the documentation.

For someone that follows a religion of peace and love you are a hate filled person. I hope you find peace one day.

You're just projecting your own hate onto me. I love my enemy for I would not even want you to go to Hell so that you would receive the gospel of salvation.

We have 45 sources for Jesus 17 of which are non-Christian. You can take any ten figures combined and Jesus has more sources written about Him.

The eyewitness testimony is true for people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. And they set up the first churches on their testimony seeing Jesus resurrected.

Paul spent 15 days with Peter who gave him the gospel, and so did James and John in 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2. Almost all scholars consider this Paul's genuine writings and the most trustworthy of all his writings. So it goes all the way back to the cross. Paul was converted 2 years after the cross. Second generation Apostles such as Clement of Rome and Polycarp in extra-Biblical sources said they knew Peter and John personally who of course gave the same gospel message.

All copies upon copies of the Bible contain the same doctrines and any differences are merely different punctuation or different words to express the same point.

That is odd,

List your sources.

I have no hate for anyone. I would not wish a fate on someone I think is horrible. You are the one doing that, not me.
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12-08-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
TL; DR

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-08-2014, 03:02 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 03:06 PM by hbl.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 02:59 PM)wazzel Wrote:  List your sources.

I have no hate for anyone. I would not wish a fate on someone I think is horrible. You are the one doing that, not me.

At the same time you can't be unjust either for it would be evil to allow someone such as yourself to be with God and the Lamb and His people in the New City and New Earth since you hate God and His elect. Similarly we can't let people out of jail who belong there for life. They will harm others.

Christians give you the gospel of salvation out of love because we don't want you to perish, but the choice is free nonetheless, and your choice is to go to Hell. You're a bad guy!

You can find all 45 sources (17 of which are non-Christian) exhaustively detailed that I speak of in 3 books by the leading scholar on the planet for the resurrection Gary R. Habermas:

1) The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus
2) Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus
3) The Historical Jesus
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12-08-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 02:53 PM)hbl Wrote:  ...the Neronian persecutions 65 AD when the authors of the NT were martyred.

Please give us a list of names of people who were martyred by Nero. I'm not holding my breath, because you can't. Nero persecuted some Christians -- so what? There is zero evidence that any of the apostles were among them.

Quote: It's sort of difficult to write your books if you have already died.

Nobody knows who wrote the gospels, so this argument proves nothing. Yes, the authors of the gospels wrote them before they died. Duhhh! That says absolutely nothing about who the authors were.

Your repeated assertions with no evidence to back them up are getting extremely tiresome.
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12-08-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 01:51 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  "bears on its face no evident marks of forgery"

There are plenty marks of forgery. Mark 16:9-20 - Totally Forged. Example 1. Refute that.

Next - define forgery - "Not part of the original author's work?"

You've not proved your point.

There is nothing to suggest Mark 16 is forged. Granted some copies don't have this passage but others do. Christians can be graceful to you and say we will let you exclude this passage, but in the previous verses Mark still says the resurrection took place, except he didn't list the accounts.

Since the original Apostles set up the first churches on their eyewitness testimony their writings have been in their hands and the hands of the Church by the proper repository these past 2000 years.
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12-08-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 03:08 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Please give us a list of names of people who were martyred by Nero.

Here is a list. You didn't have to hold your breath for too long.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Nero.htm
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12-08-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
So the only real question here is - once presented with the evidence, what will our OP do? The options are:

1. Ignore Completely and continue to post the same shite over and over;
2. Tell us why we are taking things out of context;
3. Debate work of professional scholars by using work by shoddy Fundie scholars as rebuttal evidence;
4. Or disappear completely after his positions are torn down.

I think likely is 4.

Thoughts?

Let the games begin.... Popcorn

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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12-08-2014, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 03:25 PM by hbl.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(12-08-2014 03:08 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Nobody knows who wrote the gospels,

We know Luke wrote Luke since he writes to the same person in Acts and says in Acts that Luke was his former work or that Acts is part two of his former work the gospel of Luke. Luke emphasized Jesus as fully man.

We know Mark wrote Mark, very basic like Mark is, and even says he runs in the street naked when Jesus was captured. He emphasized Jesus as servant.

We know John wrote John, places himself at the cross and in his epistles says he saw Jesus resurrected. He emphasized Jesus' deity and love.

We know Matthew wrote Matthew emphasizing Jesus as king as Matthew was a tax collector. His writings are quite regal in fashion.

There are really no other candidates to have written these books or anything that overturns this evidence that the Apostles were in the best position to know.

As the gospels were completed before the Neronian persecutions 65 AD, the Apostles were alive while the writing took place and who better than them to be the authors!

If these events were not true the Apostles could have contested it but nobody did from any of the earliest Apostles. In fact that's what Paul said in 1 Cor. 15 that many were still alive at the time of his writing 1 Cor. 15 so let them speak up now. They never did!

Since group hallucinations are impossible and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, the Apostles were martyred for their faith and they never changed their minds, we know they were genuine and sincere and that they saw Jesus alive from the dead, touched Him, talked with Him, walked with Him, and even ate with Him on a couple of occasions.

Such is the best explanation.

My prayer for you is a simple one: "Don't be a deadbeat atheist, for as all lies eventually break down and hurt you and others, so does atheism, even if you are too retarded or ignorant or obtuse or your conscience too seared to see the negative consequences now."

Don't be a degenerated unregenerate!
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12-08-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
tl; dr

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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