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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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04-08-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  The reason I don't believe in atheism is because something can't come from nothing. That which does not exist can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. For example, a square circle can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. Likewise, non-existence can't cause nature or the universe to come into being. Krauss would be wrong as well, because that which doesn't exist can't split into something. It doesn't exist.

And nature can't always have existed either, because if it did, you would by that definition have had an eternity to come into being before now in an infinite regression of cause and effects, so you should have already happened.

Moreover, infinite regress is inherently self-contradictory because if there was this past eternity of cause and effects as part of nature, the universe or universes, then a past eternity should continue to go on for eternity, never reaching this point in the here and now. Thus, past eternity is a man made construct, but doesn't exist in reality.

Therefore, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. Knowing this, we know, therefore, that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is whom we call God. If you ask me what I mean by the term God, the first thing I would tell you is that this is the 'uncreated Creator'.

Knowing that God exists, it is incumbent upon us to find out where God reveals Himself as only one faith can be true because God does not contradict Himself. He makes Himself known rather than unknown as we have already seen by this proof. What else does He reveal about Himself?

How do you know it had a cause? How do yo know it isn't eternal? Why do you start from nothing when we know there is something?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-08-2014, 12:10 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  The reason I don't believe in atheism is because something can't come from nothing. That which does not exist can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. For example, a square circle can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. Likewise, non-existence can't cause nature or the universe to come into being. Krauss would be wrong as well, because that which doesn't exist can't split into something. It doesn't exist.

And nature can't always have existed either, because if it did, you would by that definition have had an eternity to come into being before now in an infinite regression of cause and effects, so you should have already happened.

Moreover, infinite regress is inherently self-contradictory because if there was this past eternity of cause and effects as part of nature, the universe or universes, then a past eternity should continue to go on for eternity, never reaching this point in the here and now. Thus, past eternity is a man made construct, but doesn't exist in reality.

Therefore, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. Knowing this, we know, therefore, that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is whom we call God. If you ask me what I mean by the term God, the first thing I would tell you is that this is the 'uncreated Creator'.

Knowing that God exists, it is incumbent upon us to find out where God reveals Himself as only one faith can be true because God does not contradict Himself. He makes Himself known rather than unknown as we have already seen by this proof. What else does He reveal about Himself?


I agree with you that there can't be an infinite regress of causes but neither can there be a consciousness as a first cause of everything because that contradicts a known fact of reality which is the primacy of existence principle.

The only other alternative is an uncaused, eternal universe. This alternative has an advantage in that it doesn't contradict any essential facts of existence as does a consciousness as a first cause or an infinite regress of causes. I think you need to acknowledge that your chosen explanation does conflict with known facts. This is what theists never do. They take the issue of primacy for granted.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-08-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:30 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(04-08-2014 10:48 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I was wondering the same thing. They are after all exactly the same arguments and the two posters are just as boring.

Not JW. The writiing and logic style is too different, even if the content is similar. JW at least developed his bad arguments into something halfway coherent.

Agree.
On TTA's famous PleasyJebus Dumbshit Presuppositionalist Church Lady Scale of Spouting Babble Verses That Actually Makes Sense, (0-10) this one's about a .00003. JW was about a 0.25

Pleasy was as close to absolute zero, (much like 0 Kelvin would be on the temp scale) as one can get.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-08-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I read through the first few pages. hbl you seem to have some misconceptions about what atheism is, what the bible really says, and the historical veracity of the bible. All of the questions you have asked have been answered before, and many times. I encourage you to seek out those anwers and evaluate them; no just on what you used to believe or what you wish to believe, but on what seems to be most rational. Best of luck.
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04-08-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 09:58 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Something smells of a Jeremy Walker puppet - or maybe all special pleading and quote mining just look the same, over and over again!.
I was thinking more in terms of Troy Brooks. The whole thing stinks of a Gary Habermas disciple who's terrified of the thought that the universe (or its component materials) might be eternal and causeless.
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04-08-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 12:10 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  The reason I don't believe in atheism is because something can't come from nothing. That which does not exist can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. For example, a square circle can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. Likewise, non-existence can't cause nature or the universe to come into being. Krauss would be wrong as well, because that which doesn't exist can't split into something. It doesn't exist.

And nature can't always have existed either, because if it did, you would by that definition have had an eternity to come into being before now in an infinite regression of cause and effects, so you should have already happened.

Moreover, infinite regress is inherently self-contradictory because if there was this past eternity of cause and effects as part of nature, the universe or universes, then a past eternity should continue to go on for eternity, never reaching this point in the here and now. Thus, past eternity is a man made construct, but doesn't exist in reality.

Therefore, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. Knowing this, we know, therefore, that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is whom we call God. If you ask me what I mean by the term God, the first thing I would tell you is that this is the 'uncreated Creator'.

Knowing that God exists, it is incumbent upon us to find out where God reveals Himself as only one faith can be true because God does not contradict Himself. He makes Himself known rather than unknown as we have already seen by this proof. What else does He reveal about Himself?


I agree with you that there can't be an infinite regress of causes but neither can there be a consciousness as a first cause of everything because that contradicts a known fact of reality which is the primacy of existence principle.

The only other alternative is an uncaused, eternal universe. This alternative has an advantage in that it doesn't contradict any essential facts of existence as does a consciousness as a first cause or an infinite regress of causes. I think you need to acknowledge that your chosen explanation does conflict with known facts. This is what theists never do. They take the issue of primacy for granted.

The problem with an infinite regress is that people have a hard time with infinities.
An infinite number of people check into an infinite hotel before you do and all of them must get checked in before you can get checked in.
As you are checked in, you think, but shouldn't the infinite number of people still be checking in. The manager of the hotel says, we also have an infinite check in time for our infinite hotel guests. An infinite number of people can easily be checked in when they have an infinite amount of time.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-08-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 10:25 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  The reason I don't believe in atheism is because something can't come from nothing.

Indeed, which is why I stopped reading after that sentence because nothing worth listening to could follow that trite and frequently misconstrued strawman.

I went against my instincts and read the rest. Bad idea, it was a near fatal dosage of logical fallacies. Was stupid enough to read some of his later responses, brain-bleach requested with great urgency.

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04-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Personally, I find an uncaused cause, an infinite regress, or a universe that has always existed all equally mind-boggling, which is why I've never been impressed by that sort of argument. "Well, A is absurd, so you must accept B" -- even though B is equally absurd. I'm willing to just admit that some things are beyond my understanding, and not automatically conclude "therefore God".
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04-08-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Either i am up early or my precious HBL is gone Sad

I'm curious, maybe I'm having a brain failure right now, but where did I say that hBL was the one to bear my sins? I said I'd worship him but I took responsibility I thought?

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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04-08-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I like shit that doesn't involve extry assumptions. God is a big pile of poo riddled with assumptions. Like, we have this problem: what the fuck happened when the universe began?

A. We don't fucking know.
B. Goddidit. God being some weirdo male humanoid who then went awol for the next 15 billion years until some fucken yeast on a crumb of rock in the middle of a cosmic wasteland evolved into a bronze age civilization. The yeast was inspired to write a book about it.

B involves so many extra assumptions it's laughable... why the fuck would anyone ever think that?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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