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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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16-08-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 06:44 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 03:10 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Writings of the Gospels: Mark (60 to 75 CE), Matthew (80 to 90 CE), Luke (80 to 90 CE based on the Gospels of Mark), and John (80 to 110 CE)

Your dates are impossible because the Apostles died in the Neronian persecutions around 65 AD so they were written before then. Transmission of their experiences is best done while they are alive to impart their experiences.

Luke identifies himself as the writer of Acts, "The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach" (Acts 1.1). He is referring to his former work which was the gospel of Luke. Therein he says, "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus" (Luke 1.3).

Since Luke didn't mention Paul's death in Acts it is because at the time of writing it hadn't happened yet. Therefore, Acts was written around 50-55 AD. Luke's former work the gospel of Luke, therefore was written before then around 40-45 AD. But since Luke took from Mark in part that places Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Peter was also with Mark so 1 & 2 Peter were written a few years after the cross.

There is no reason for people to consider your late dating. You need a reason. You haven't given any. So we can be confident in this evidence I have provided.

There are two other important points to consider. The earliest known still surviving papyri is dated late 1st century, and you can quote all the verses of the NT from the early church fathers in the late 1st and 2nd centuries. Therefore, the books of the NT had to have been written a considerable time before then.

Hope that helps.

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16-08-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 07:24 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 07:13 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Would be impossible if they were guaranteed to have been written by said apostles.

It's noteworthy that some Bibles in print even doubt that they're directly of eyewitnesses. It's only a belief.

I am glad you couldn't show an impossibility of the Apostles as being the authors. Critics need evidence. You have none.

There no versions of the Bible that question the authenticity of the eyewitness Apostles. People simply don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. The first churches were built on the resurrection of Jesus and martyrdom ensued. James was the first of the Apostles in Acts to be murdered for his eyewitness testimony of seeing Jesus alive from the dead. Extra-Biblical sources record the martyrdom of the rest of the Apostles. They never changed their view.

So it is more than just a belief, but eyewitness testimony. This is what makes Christianity unique.

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16-08-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Let's maintain our emphasis on the Minimal Facts Approach.

This is what God wants you to do. This is God's very best proof. Can you find a better proof than this?
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16-08-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 07:36 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 07:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  impossible

a lie? You know it's possible people died for a belief that wasn't what some others thought their belief was right?

I am glad to see you have no evidence to support your claim it is impossible. At least understand God considers this the perfect proof which is why you are having such a hard time to back up your claim of impossible.

We aren't talking about second generation Apostles, but the first Apostles, you know those guys and gals who spent 3 years with Jesus and who saw Jesus alive from the dead who were martyred, never changing their testimony.

Second generation Apostles knew the first generation Apostles personally, e.g. Clement of Rome knew Peter and Polycarp was a student of John.

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16-08-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 08:11 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 07:55 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  friendship

Do you understand why Jesus is the friend of sinners?

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16-08-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Minimal Facts Approach. Have you heard of it?
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16-08-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 09:04 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 08:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Jude
Daniel's

Jude was clearly the brother of Jesus and Jude wrote his book before he was martyred so he wrote this material before 65 AD. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Now gain from the spiritual message he provides in his book. There are 66 books of the Bible. Without Jude it is not complete. Without Daniel it is not complete.

Dan. 9.24-27 tells us that there is one final seven lasting 2,520 days (7 x 360) at the end of this age. It says from the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem there would be 7 sets of 7 then another 62 sets of 7 after which the Messiah would be cut off.

That comes to 69 x 7 x 360 or 173,880 days. The declaration was Neh. 2.1 444 BC March 5. The 173,880th day is exactly Nisan 10, March 28, 33 AD, a Monday. The 4 day inspection of the Lamb was Nisan 10, 11, 12, 13 or March 28, 29, 30, 31. Passover was Nisan 14, Friday, April 1, 33 AD (Gregorian) or April 3 (Julian). Satan even mocks Jesus' death claiming it is April Fool's day. We are fools for Christ meaning that God uses the foolishness of the cross to bring down the wise.

Satan can't work in that which is dead. Christians have died to our old man on the cross. That's why Rev. 6.1 has the rider on the white horse with a bow without an arrow, that looks like a cross, because the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound.

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16-08-2014, 10:27 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 09:45 PM)hbl Wrote:  It's all about the Minimal Facts Approach.

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16-08-2014, 10:28 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 07:51 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 07:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Good thing I've never claimed somethings impossible then huh?

It's impossible for group hallucinations to occur, and it's impossible for people to willingly die for what they know is a lie.

This is God's proof.

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16-08-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(16-08-2014 10:24 PM)hbl Wrote:  Let's maintain our emphasis on the Minimal Facts Approach.

This is what God wants you to do. This is God's very best proof. Can you find a better proof than this?

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