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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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04-08-2014, 11:41 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  It can be said atheism is a form of delusion with very specific purpose to reject your Creator and thus go to Hell.

What can you say against my counter assertion: religion is a form of delusion with a specific purpose - to control people.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-08-2014, 11:48 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  No mathematics are needed to know that the you that you are now at this time is the only time you are you now for any other time or space is not the space and time here and now. Even a 6 year old can understand that so let go of your delusion. It can be said atheism is a form of delusion with very specific purpose to reject your Creator and thus go to Hell.

So, you don't believe in mathematics either? Or, for that matter anything a 6-year-old wouldn't understand? Rolleyes

And your indoctrination teaches you that atheists are the deluded ones. Perfect. Facepalm
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04-08-2014, 11:49 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I haven't even gone to bed yet, but my breakfast is already calling to me... I can hear the all mighty Pan as clear as day. "Come fry some eggs!"

Therefore atheism is false.
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04-08-2014, 11:58 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(04-08-2014 11:14 PM)Astreja Wrote:  I would like to see the actual mathematics that demonstrates this alleged impossibility, not just your assertion.

No mathematics are needed to know that the you that you are now at this time is the only time you are you now for any other time or space is not the space and time here and now. Even a 6 year old can understand that so let go of your delusion. It can be said atheism is a form of delusion with very specific purpose to reject your Creator and thus go to Hell.

.... so what you are saying then, is even if there was an infinite history which contained one or more otherwise identical versions of us, they would not be us, as an arbitrary definition of identity? Fine, there's some wiggle room in definitions of identity, and that's perfectly valid. That's why I put "we" and "us" in quotes back in my response to you (which you've yet to address). Perfectly valid, perfectly valid...

... except...

... what does that do to your claim that we would have already come to exist, given an infinite regress of cause and effect?

(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  And nature can't always have existed either, because if it did, you would by that definition have had an eternity to come into being before now in an infinite regression of cause and effects, so you should have already happened.

By this present statement, those past versions of us wouldn't actually be us. We could never exist except in this time and place. And yet your original post would REQUIRE those earlier versions of us to be us in order to support your claim of the impossibility of infinite regress (though, even then, it wouldn't succeed in supporting it).

So which is it? Are those hypothetical past versions of us actually us, meaning that we would exist in more than one time and place just fine, or aren't they, making your claim that we would have already existed in the case of infinite regress? It's like you're shifting your notion of identity from one valid definition to another from one post to the next to suit your purposes.

While each definition that you're using is valid, the switching most definitely is not. That's called an equivocation fallacy, btw. More commonly known as a bait-and-switch.

So which is it? Would those hypothetical past versions of us in the case of infinite regress actually be us, or would they not be us?

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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05-08-2014, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 12:29 AM by hbl.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:58 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  .... so what you are saying then, is even if there was an infinite history which contained one or more otherwise identical versions of us, they would not be us, as an arbitrary definition of identity? Fine, there's some wiggle room in definitions of identity, and that's perfectly valid. That's why I put "we" and "us" in quotes back in my response to you (which you've yet to address). Perfectly valid, perfectly valid...

It's not arbitrary, but really the you that you are now is the only you here and now that occupies this spacetime moment.

So infinite regress of nature remains impossible, because you would have already happened, having had an eternity of cause and effects to do so. Thus, atheism is false.

Consider this a rescue attempt for atheists as there is really not much difference between an insane asylum and an atheist forum.
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05-08-2014, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 12:21 AM by DemonicLemon.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I love how you just cut out a section of the argument you agreed with, that's the HBL I fell in love with <3 Heart <3

Edit: Oh I see, you edited your post, I'm sure you have your reasons, bae.

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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05-08-2014, 12:51 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Quote:Consider this a rescue attempt for atheists as there is really not much difference between an insane asylum and an atheist forum.
Screw you.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-08-2014, 01:02 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Just another troll. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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05-08-2014, 01:05 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 05:45 PM)hbl Wrote:  You've contradicted yourself because on one hand you said "there can't be infinite regress" in nature and then plead for "an uncaused, eternal universe" which is by definition an infinite regress of nature.

Eternity is not the same as an infinite regress.


(04-08-2014 05:45 PM)hbl Wrote:  Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

"O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. " Surat Al-Ĥujurāt (The Rooms) 49:12


(04-08-2014 05:45 PM)hbl Wrote:  God is not an atheist and an atheist is not God so stop trying to be. That's the simplest explanation.

Word salad.

Clearly you're not even trying to debate on grounds of logic but on words that sound good. It may work in front of a crowd of people who are already converted and want to be told how they're right, but not in a discussion forum where every small point can be picked apart.
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05-08-2014, 01:10 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 01:05 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Eternity is not the same as an infinite regress.

An eternity of the past is the same thing as infinite regress. But it's impossible. So atheism is false -- a delusion to reject God and go to Hell.
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