Poll: Do you believe in atheism?
No
Yes
Not sure (agnostic)
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 7 Votes - 1.57 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-08-2014, 01:16 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 06:03 PM)hbl Wrote:  Therefore, as before in the opening post and continually reiterated with the same proof, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated, whom we call God.

Your argument relies on the ambiguity of the word 'cause'.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Yet you are relying the everyday usage of 'cause' to try and convince us that energy was created. This never happens in every day life.

Can you cause a hammer to exist? Only by planting a seed, growing it, cutting down the tree, using the wood to make the handle, mining iron, adding carbon, melting it in the shape of a head and then combining it with the handle.

At no point did you 'cause' the atoms in the wood and metal to exist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Mathilda's post
05-08-2014, 01:25 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 01:10 AM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 01:05 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Eternity is not the same as an infinite regress.

An eternity of the past is the same thing as infinite regress. But it's impossible.

If an eternity in the past is impossible then an eternity in the future is also impossible. This means no Heaven, Hell or God can exist.

Therefore Christianity is false.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like Mathilda's post
05-08-2014, 01:46 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
My word this guy is not even a good poe, he is waaaay to obvious with it. I mean its nice sometimes to hear the same tired bullshit so you can always be sharp and ready to dismantle said bullshit when it comes up in conversation with a person who does NOT have a lobotomised potato rolling around in the vacuous space one calls a skull.

I personally find a great sense of tragedy in the people who actually think like the OP. Both in the waste of life it is and that they will eventually be to dead to know it.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2014, 06:36 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 06:03 PM)hbl Wrote:  We know there was never just nothing, because if all there ever was was non-existence then nothing would ever exist--you would not exist--because that which does not exist can't cause anything since it doesn't exist. Something in nature always must come from something.

We know neither the universe always existed or something prior to the universe naturally existed infinitely in the past, because if they had, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so.

Therefore, as before in the opening post and continually reiterated with the same proof, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated, whom we call God.

So, the obvious question: What caused God?

How was he "always around"? By what mechanism does this work? If the universe can't exist without cause, how can God exist without a cause? How is this not infinite regress when you say that an eternal universe is?

You're unwilling to imagine an eternal universe (dismissing it with the term "infinite regress", which is technically a misuse of the term) yet you're perfectly willing to assume* an eternal, uncaused god. Why is this?


* I say assume because you haven't actually demonstrated God exists. You've just asked a question to which we don't know the answer and asserted that your "prime mover" is your particular god. Do you have any evidence your god exists that doesn't require you to assume he exists in the first place?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RobbyPants's post
05-08-2014, 06:51 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 07:47 AM by Brian37.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
If one can accept that there is no Egyptian sun god, and one can accept that an Ocean god named Poseidon is not causing hurricanes, and one can accept there is no storm god named Thor making lightening, then why would the earth, life on earth, our solar system, or universe, need a god to cause it either?

When you make the argument "Something cant come out of nothing" consider this.

"Something cant come out of nothing=Allah"
"Something cant come out of nothing=Yahweh"
"Something cant come out of nothing=Vishnu"

If you can accept that someone with another god belief merely believes it because they like believing it then you need to consider the same and look in the mirror yourself. It has nothing to do with rights, merely logic.

It makes much more sense to me that humans make gods up and falsely believe in them. It is a reflection of fear of being finite and a childish ignorance of our evolutionary drive to continue.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Brian37's post
05-08-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(03-08-2014 08:40 PM)hbl Wrote:  The reason I don't believe in atheism is because something can't come from nothing. That which does not exist can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. For example, a square circle can't cause anything because it doesn't exist. Likewise, non-existence can't cause nature or the universe to come into being. Krauss would be wrong as well, because that which doesn't exist can't split into something. It doesn't exist.

And nature can't always have existed either, because if it did, you would by that definition have had an eternity to come into being before now in an infinite regression of cause and effects, so you should have already happened.

Moreover, infinite regress is inherently self-contradictory because if there was this past eternity of cause and effects as part of nature, the universe or universes, then a past eternity should continue to go on for eternity, never reaching this point in the here and now. Thus, past eternity is a man made construct, but doesn't exist in reality.

Therefore, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. Knowing this, we know, therefore, that nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is whom we call God. If you ask me what I mean by the term God, the first thing I would tell you is that this is the 'uncreated Creator'.

Knowing that God exists, it is incumbent upon us to find out where God reveals Himself as only one faith can be true because God does not contradict Himself. He makes Himself known rather than unknown as we have already seen by this proof. What else does He reveal about Himself?

It is very interesting that you haven't responded to my post while you've responded to everyone else's. Why is it that you don't want to deal with the most important issue in fundamentals, metaphysical primacy?

If you don't understand it I'll be glad to explain it in detail. It is not some side issue that can be blown off. It is a crucial issue. Or is it that you sense the peril it represents to your whole worldview and you would rather ignore it?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2014, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 09:06 AM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I started my own thread about this because I thought it was the theists' best argument. However, it strictly philosophical. In reality, something can come from nothing in science. Here's the thread. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...om-nothing Watch the first video that Michael_Tadlock posted. You will see a God is not required. Hope this helps.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes smileXsmileXsmile's post
05-08-2014, 09:07 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 09:23 AM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
PS that poll is fucked. You can't believe in atheism. Atheism is not a belief. Atheism just means you lack belief in a God or Gods. It's not something you can "believe" in. According to Google, the word believe is defined as "accepting something as truth". Since I'm not accepting anything as truth, I cannot believe.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2014, 09:11 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(04-08-2014 11:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  ...the you that you are now at this time is the only time you are you now for any other time or space is not the space and time here and now.

You know, some Buddhists have used similar reasoning to conclude that the self does not exist at all. And they generally do not believe in God -- certainly not in the same God that you believe in.

Also, the quoted sentence is a bit difficult to parse. You might want to work on your grammar skills. Unless you were trying for something like this:

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together ... goo goo goo joob!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 12:03 AM)hbl Wrote:  
(04-08-2014 11:58 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  .... so what you are saying then, is even if there was an infinite history which contained one or more otherwise identical versions of us, they would not be us, as an arbitrary definition of identity? Fine, there's some wiggle room in definitions of identity, and that's perfectly valid. That's why I put "we" and "us" in quotes back in my response to you (which you've yet to address). Perfectly valid, perfectly valid...

It's not arbitrary, but really the you that you are now is the only you here and now that occupies this spacetime moment.

So infinite regress of nature remains impossible, because you would have already happened, having had an eternity of cause and effects to do so. Thus, atheism is false.

Consider this a rescue attempt for atheists as there is really not much difference between an insane asylum and an atheist forum.

I'm still waiting for the "you would have already happened" bit to actually be proven, rather than just blindly asserted. Please bear in mind my earlier comments about math, probability, and the different orders of infinity. And yes, infinity IS a mathematical concept. Any time you talk about something being infinite, you're talking math.

Since you are defining "us" to be the ones situated in this current spot in space and time, and any other versions of us in the past would not be so-situated and thus would not actually be "us", I ask that you conform to this definition in your proof. In particular, you would have to prove that any past versions of us are actually the "us" that would have already existed, while simultaneously maintaining that they are by definition not "us".

... oh, and since you didn't get it the first dozen times it was told to you, atheism is the absence of a belief that a god exists. It is not the positive assertion that no god exists. That is a subset of atheism -- called strong atheism -- which only a minority of atheists put forward as what they mean when they say they're an atheist. The rest of us are in the "not yet convinced" category regarding gods, and while many of us think it likely that the entire notion's rubbish, we remain open-minded and would modify our opinion if presented with actual evidence or a good argument. (Neither of which have been presented, here.)

My point is, the statement "atheism is false" is ludicrous, because atheism doesn't actually assert anything. It's just the state of not buying into the assertions of others. It's not in itself claim. It can't have any status of being true or false. It's like saying "a rock is false".

BTW, I LOVE how you transitioned from the vague, uncaused-cause, deistic notion of a God to a specifically hell-and-brimstone-afterlife kinda-Christian version, with no evidence at all.

Also, pasquel's wager. Called it. Where's my damn bingo card? For the record, threatening us with hell as a consequence of our nonbelief doesn't work unless we actually believe that there's anything behind the threat... at which point, we wouldn't be atheists. It's like pointing a toy ray gun at us and threatening to kill us with it if we don't believe that it's a real ray gun that can actually hurt us. If we don't think it's a real weapon, the threat is laughable, and you deserve all the mockery you get. If this is the level of thought you're putting into "saving" us, you obviously don't give a damn about doing the job right, and you're just wasting our time and yours.

... except for your unintentional entertainment value. Hey, laughable threats make me laugh. So I guess it's only your time being wasted.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Reltzik's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: