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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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05-08-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 03:29 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 03:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Had enough yet? bring it when you think you can....

Boom, yup, that just happened Smartass
ThumbsupThumbsupBanginBangin

Next thing you know, you might start saying something crazy like Moses didn't write anything in the bible either. That's just crazy talk. Big Grin

Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-08-2014, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 04:19 PM by hbl.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 03:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  NO ONE who wrote of jesus, knew him, no one.

All the books of the NT were written by eyewitness Apostles or very close associates such as Luke.

We have 45 sources for Jesus documenting 129 facts of His life within 150 years of Jesus' death. For no other person do we have sources within a 1000 years of their deaths. But for Jesus we have 15 parchments (still surviving papyri) within 150 years of His death. God holds a higher standard of historical record.

Of those 45 sources, 17 are non-Christian. Of those 17, 12 speak of His death and 12 of His resurrection. 7 even speak of His deity. Altogether of those 45 sources (both Christian and non-Christian), 24 speak of His resurrection. I get this information from Gary. R. Habermas 3 of 70 of his books: 1) The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, 2) Historical Jesus, and 3) Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus. Some say Gary is the leading scholar on the planet today for the resurrection evidence using the Minimal Facts Approach. This simply says that almost all scholars agree Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which he said he spent 15 days with Peter, with John and James brother of Jesus, he received the gospel message from the eyewitness Apostles and it agreed with his own eyewitness testimony of Jesus. So he and they truly believed it, but there is no naturalistic explanation to account for it, so it must be true.

30 minutes in 6 short videos....


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05-08-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 04:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  All the books of the NT were written by eyewitness Apostles or very close associates such as Luke.

And you know this how? For what it's worth, many professional Biblical scholars (you know, people who study this sort of thing for a living) have concluded that none of the books of the NT were written by eyewitnesses. And nobody thinks that all of them were. Even Christian tradition does not hold that Paul ever saw Jesus (except as an apparition, and that doesn't count).
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05-08-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I forgot to mention also that the Apostles were all martyred around 65 AD in the Neronian persecutions, except for John who wrote Revelation 95 AD, so they wrote their material before then. For example, Luke wrote Acts and said it was part 2 of his former work Luke. But he makes no mention of Paul's death yet. So Paul was martyred around 60 AD. Acts would be before that about 50 AD, but Luke was before that written around 40 AD. And since Luke took from several sources including Mark that puts Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Paul was converted just 2 years after the cross as well.
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05-08-2014, 04:30 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 04:39 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 04:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 03:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  NO ONE who wrote of jesus, knew him, no one.

All the books of the NT were written by eyewitness Apostles or very close associates such as Luke.

We have 45 sources for Jesus documenting 129 facts of His life within 150 years of Jesus' death. For no other person do we have sources within a 1000 years of their deaths. But for Jesus we have 15 parchments (still surviving papyri) within 150 years of His death. God holds a higher standard of historical record.

Of those 45 sources, 17 are non-Christian. Of those 17, 12 speak of His death and 12 of His resurrection. 7 even speak of His deity. Altogether of those 45 sources (both Christian and non-Christian), 24 speak of His resurrection. I get this information from Gary. R. Habermas 3 of 70 of his books: 1) The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, 2) Historical Jesus, and 3) Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus. Some say Gary is the leading scholar on the planet today for the resurrection evidence using the Minimal Facts Approach. This simply says that almost all scholars agree Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which he said he spent 15 days with Peter, with John and James brother of Jesus, he received the gospel message from the eyewitness Apostles and it agreed with his own eyewitness testimony of Jesus. So he and they truly believed it, but there is no naturalistic explanation to account for it, so it must be true.

30 minutes in 6 short videos....



Don't use blind faith to cling to your delusion of choice, seek some education in the formation of the bible, as I have for years. I have a degree in religious studies from Saint Leo University. May I recommend Christian Spirituality Vision and Old Testament courses, they will be truly enlightening for you. You will learn that the scholars widely agree the vast majority of it is community writings, pseudepigarapha, and allegorical stories of parables written to send a message. You will learn who wrote each book (NT), and who wrote the OT (Judean priests cooked up/assembled Genesis for political reasons in Babylon as a text for reference for the return, to provide a national story and a legal system for a basis for the return. They did it around 575-550 BCE, in order to promote political unity during a crisis caused by the exilic experience in Babylon, after having written the book of Job, as an attempted "spiritual" response to the question of suffering).

Here are some books, note they are not atheist books....

Lawrence Boadt, Reading the old testament; an introduction

Mueller, J.J. Theological Foundations; concepts and methods for understanding christian faith

Albl, Martin, Reason, faith and tradition; explorations in catholic theology

Truly... research, don't use blind faith, you are smarter than that....validate your faith with knowledge. I am the son of two ministers, I was a christian, I sought after knowledge to fortify and substantiate my faith and the opposite happened; the more I learned of the lie, the less I believed. Break down each book, seek to find out who authored it and why. Here are a few crumbs to consider in your path to seek the truth...

(KJV)

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

There is not one shred of evidence that this happened...zero, all of the royal scribes, historians, philosophers, and literate people who wrote down and recorded EVERYTHING of any significance, failed to note the whole earth going dark mid-day for three hours...an eclipse lasts about 7.5 mins max, so it wasn’t that, and there were two reknowned historians who recorded each and every eclipse, as well as any other astronomical oddity....nothing, .....zero. Never happened.

Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Again, all the literate people around, royal historians, contemporary writers, etc...not one person thought that this alleged zombie invasion was noteworthy...except the author/s of matthew written many years later....you should think about how unrealistic that is.....

Read, think, contemplate, research, learn and find freedom from the cross.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-08-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
"Gaiz....it has to be true because the book says that it was written by people who believed to have witnessed the extraordinary events."

We just can't argue against that type of solid evidence. Weeping

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05-08-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Your God seems pretty weak if the end goal of even the original top honchos in your organization was to get horribly tortured to death Rolleyes pass.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-08-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 04:23 PM)hbl Wrote:  I forgot to mention also that the Apostles were all martyred around 65 AD in the Neronian persecutions, except for John who wrote Revelation 95 AD, so they wrote their material before then. For example, Luke wrote Acts and said it was part 2 of his former work Luke. But he makes no mention of Paul's death yet. So Paul was martyred around 60 AD. Acts would be before that about 50 AD, but Luke was before that written around 40 AD. And since Luke took from several sources including Mark that puts Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Paul was converted just 2 years after the cross as well.

Citation needed. There is nothing in the Bible about any of the Apostles being martyred (not that the Bible is an authoritative source anyway). This is "church tradition" (i.e., what they would like you to believe). If there is any record of it outside of church tradition, I've never seen it or heard of it.
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05-08-2014, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 04:41 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 04:21 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 04:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  All the books of the NT were written by eyewitness Apostles or very close associates such as Luke.

And you know this how? For what it's worth, many professional Biblical scholars (you know, people who study this sort of thing for a living) have concluded that none of the books of the NT were written by eyewitnesses. And nobody thinks that all of them were. Even Christian tradition does not hold that Paul ever saw Jesus (except as an apparition, and that doesn't count).

Yes

I have studied this for years, about 30 now so far....interesting thing is true biblical scholars don't refute the truth, they just don't advertise it because they don't want to "shake people's faith"..."the message is good", wave aside the fabricated lies and unsubstantiated stories... "just embrace your faith", don't ask inconsequential questions like...did jesus say that? how do we know...I had so much fun over the years taking all of those theological classes, and dismantling the story day by day..and the instructors would wave it aside and focus on "Faith". "yes yes it is true the gospels were not written at the time by people who witnessed these events, it is a parable written down by communites under known author's name in an attempt to give them credibility...meant to send the message of faith in a transcendental reality, the important thing is the belief in the message" lol

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-08-2014, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 07:44 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 04:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 03:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  NO ONE who wrote of jesus, knew him, no one.

All the books of the NT were written by eyewitness Apostles or very close associates such as Luke.

We have 45 sources for Jesus documenting 129 facts of His life within 150 years of Jesus' death. For no other person do we have sources within a 1000 years of their deaths. But for Jesus we have 15 parchments (still surviving papyri) within 150 years of His death. God holds a higher standard of historical record.

Of those 45 sources, 17 are non-Christian. Of those 17, 12 speak of His death and 12 of His resurrection. 7 even speak of His deity. Altogether of those 45 sources (both Christian and non-Christian), 24 speak of His resurrection. I get this information from Gary. R. Habermas 3 of 70 of his books: 1) The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, 2) Historical Jesus, and 3) Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus. Some say Gary is the leading scholar on the planet today for the resurrection evidence using the Minimal Facts Approach. This simply says that almost all scholars agree Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which he said he spent 15 days with Peter, with John and James brother of Jesus, he received the gospel message from the eyewitness Apostles and it agreed with his own eyewitness testimony of Jesus. So he and they truly believed it, but there is no naturalistic explanation to account for it, so it must be true.

30 minutes in 6 short videos....



No they were not. No schoalr agrees with that nonsense. The original gospels, (actually there were hundreds of gospels which later were pared down to the 4 we know) were not labeled "Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John". Clearly you have no education in ancient languages and cultures, and specifically Biblical Studies. None at all.

Habermas is one of the leading fools in the field, and charlatans practicing in the field of lying for a living. He has no degree in the field. I've been to a talk by Habermas. I asked him a question in the Q and A. His answer : "I don't know" (in a VERY annoyed voice). He's pathetic, and an embarrassment to himself. His nonsense has been debunked over and over, INCLUDING by Christian scholars. There are no references to Jesus that stand up to real scrutiny. None at all. The testimony of the gospels is not "evidence". Paul himself said he hallucinated his gospel, ("received FROM NO MAN"). Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott of the Tulsa Seminary ("The Trouble With Resurrection") has demonstrated what's wrong with the idea of a literal resurrection.

You say "almost all scholars this and that ". Let's see the poll of scholars. Reference your garbage, or STFU. Whatever Paul said he did not mean Jesus literally rose from the dead, as Scott has demonstrated, AND which fits perfectly with Jewish Apocalypticism.

You can't even prove that Jesus even existed.
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Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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