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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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05-08-2014, 09:01 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 09:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 08:47 PM)hbl Wrote:  Not at all. Most scholars who actually do peer review journal work agree there are these 45 sources, 17 of which are non-Christian.

In fact, there are more sources for Jesus within 150 years of His death than any ten figures from antiquity combined. As you can see God holds to the highest of standards in terms of number of sources, quality of those sources so well multiply corroborated and still surviving papyri closest to their events.

All of which you conveniently fail to mention even one of. Is that what you paid tuition to hear at Biola Crap College ? Hahahaha.
You have no clue who does and does not write journal articles. The number of times someone is or is not mentioned is irrelevant. Zeus is mentioned FAR more. Does that make him real ?

Prove it. You have again asserted "most scholars" with not a shred of evidence. UNLESS you provide the evidence it's a pile of crap. You have none. How exactly do you know that ? You're lying. You actuality know no such thing. You are asserting something for which you have no proof. Your god holds to no such standards. You have NO proof Jesus even existed. St. Jerome called St. Paul a liar.
"I will only mention the Apostle Paul. [...] He, then, if anyone, ought to be calumniated; we should speak thus to him: ‘The proofs which you have used against the Jews and against other heretics bear a different meaning in their own contexts to that which they bear in your Epistles'." --Jerome, Epistle to Pammachus

There is no reason to believe any of the Church Fathers. They admitted they were liars, and wrote about how it was good to deceive.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church




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05-08-2014, 09:16 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no reason to believe any of the Church Fathers.

You can quote all the verses from the NT except for 11 verses from early church fathers in the late 1st and 2nd centuries.
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05-08-2014, 09:18 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:16 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 09:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no reason to believe any of the Church Fathers.

You can quote all the verses from the NT except for 11 verses from early church fathers in the late 1st and 2nd centuries.

Source? If this thread is going to be about historical jesus, its a dead end unless you produce some scholarly sources.
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05-08-2014, 09:18 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:16 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 09:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no reason to believe any of the Church Fathers.

You can quote all the verses from the NT except for 11 verses from early church fathers in the late 1st and 2nd centuries.

No dear. That's called "circular". Using the Babble to prove the Babble.
So we shall conclude then you have no proof of what you say. Liar.

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05-08-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
A fact is a fact. Another fact is you can't find a viable and plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles. Thank you for your testimony giving strength to the perfect proof God provides.
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05-08-2014, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014 09:43 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:25 PM)hbl Wrote:  A fact is a fact. Another fact is you can't find a viable and plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles.

Nothing is a "fact" until it's proven. So far you've proven nothing.
No proofs here. So no facts here.
Your "eyewitness testimony" is worthless. Believers saying what they believe. Matthew says many others rose. That the temple curtain was torn. Graves were opened. Yet NOT ONE other person, even the other gospels mentioned that, ot ONE Jewish historian mentions the curtain. There is no reason the accept the "testimony" of believers saying what they believe. You also can't prove it's "eyewitness" anything.

I do believe in Mithra though.
1. Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds.
2. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
3. He had 12 companions or apostles.
4. Mithra's followers were promised immortality.
5. He performed miracles.
6. As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
7. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again.
8. His resurrection was celebrated every year.
9. He was called "the Good Shepherd" and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
10. He was considered the "Way, the Truth and the Light," and the "Logos," "Redeemer," "Savior" and "Messiah."
11. His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Jesus.
12. Mithra had his principal festival of what was later to become Easter.

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05-08-2014, 09:55 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  7. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again.
8. His resurrection was celebrated every year.

You would need to identify the source, the earliest known surviving papyri, and show the source was before Jesus since Jesus was the first and only substantially proven by the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings.

Typically copycats lack the well corroborated multiple eyewitness testimony in various group settings and drop off in following because of this.

You need at least the claim of several hundred million followers today if not over a billion.
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05-08-2014, 09:56 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:25 PM)hbl Wrote:  A fact is a fact. Another fact is you can't find a viable and plausible naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles. Thank you for your testimony giving strength to the perfect proof God provides.

eye witness???? this stuff was written 60 to 100 years later. I believe your memory gets fuzzy over time. also It was passed down as oral legend.... so basically it's a big game of telephone. a game for which is none for getting facts wrong.

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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05-08-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:56 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  eye witness???? this stuff was written 60 to 100 years later.

The Apostles died in the Neronian persecutions around 65 AD so all the books of the NT were completed by then as it was written by the eyewitnesses and those close to.

It wouldn't make much sense to say it was written 100 years later because we already have quotes from church fathers before then of the same passages. They were quoting the already completed Bible.

You can quote all the verses in the NT except for 11 verses from the early church fathers in the late first and 2nd centuries.
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05-08-2014, 10:08 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(05-08-2014 09:59 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(05-08-2014 09:56 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  eye witness???? this stuff was written 60 to 100 years later.

The Apostles died in the Neronian persecutions around 65 AD so all the books of the NT were completed by then as it was written by the eyewitnesses and those close to.

It wouldn't make much sense to say it was written 100 years later because we already have quotes from church fathers before then of the same passages. They were quoting the already completed Bible.

You can quote all the verses in the NT except for 11 verses from the early church fathers in the late first and 2nd centuries.

then why don't they agree on what happened. if they are are from eye witness why when you make a cross study of the books of the new testimant that you get inacrasies on what happened.

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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