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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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06-08-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:35 PM)hbl Wrote:  You can go through the full gambit of naturalistic theories to realize they all fail to know it is true.

Pleading ignorance otherwise is not tenable.

You can try to shift the burden of proof all you want but your approach of accepting a positive assertion just because one (of infinite possible) opposing assertions is currently unknown is impractical and even useless to us in our present reality.


If you don't want a sarcastic answer, don't ask stupid questions. Drinking Beverage
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06-08-2014, 07:45 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:43 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  You can try to shift the burden of proof all you want but your approach of accepting a positive assertion just because one (of infinite possible) opposing assertions is currently unknown is impractical and even useless to us in our present reality.

Pleading an infinite number of possibilities violates a finite universe. So the burden remains on you because I did my due diligence and you still can't find a naturalistic explanation.

In fact, your failure to find a naturalistic explanation strengthens my case so thanks for the testimony.
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06-08-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:45 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(06-08-2014 07:43 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  You can try to shift the burden of proof all you want but your approach of accepting a positive assertion just because one (of infinite possible) opposing assertions is currently unknown is impractical and even useless to us in our present reality.

Pleading an infinite number of possibilities violates a finite universe. So the burden remains on you because I did my due diligence and you still can't find a naturalistic explanation.

In fact, your failure to find a naturalistic explanation strengthens my case so thanks for the testimony.

I don't think you understood my post. Unless you are capable of examining ALL possible explanations, you cannot conclude for certain. Let me try to put it to you in another way: we have no way to know FOR SURE right now what the origin of the universe is (what you call a naturalistic explanation). What we can do is give a best guess based on the evidence that we gather. This is the most honest we can get. We can function perfectly fine without knowing everything. The process of studying everything however, has a myriad of uses. And unfortunately, asserting unsubstantiated information is useless and even harmful.


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06-08-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:53 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  Unless you are capable of examining ALL possible explanations, you cannot conclude for certain. Let me try to put it to you in another way: we have no way to know FOR SURE right now what the origin of the universe is (what you call a naturalistic explanation). What we can do is give a best guess based on the evidence that we gather. This is the most honest we can get. We can function perfectly fine without knowing everything. The process of studying everything however, has a myriad of uses. And unfortunately, asserting unsubstantiated information is useless and even harmful.

We have examined all naturalistic theories. Painstaking extensive work has been done by the brightest minds. I don't think you understand what I am referring to naturalistic explanation. I was referring to the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles.

But if you want to change the topic to the origin of the universe, you don't need to know where the first naturalistic event took place; it will suffice to know that it could not happen from nothing. So nature needs a cause outside of itself outside of time and space being uncreated whom we call God.
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06-08-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Jesus hopped up christ on a pogostick, can we not get any interesting trolls around here anymore? Facepalm

I'm actually missing childeye right now....

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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06-08-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
My "origin of the universe" comment was meant to try and be a simpler way to tell you about the burden of proof, but nevermind.

(06-08-2014 07:56 PM)hbl Wrote:  We have examined all naturalistic theories

This is not true. We have not yet examined all naturalistic theories. And it is very possible that we can't. If you continue to use this as the bedrock of your argumentation it will never be anything more than a logical fallacy.


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06-08-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
[Image: Argument-is-invalid-cat.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-08-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 08:13 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  This is not true. We have not yet examined all naturalistic theories. And it is very possible that we can't. If you continue to use this as the bedrock of your argumentation it will never be anything more than a logical fallacy.

Yes we have examined all naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings.

This is the bedrock proof of God's word God's very best proof!
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06-08-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 06:15 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(06-08-2014 01:33 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  How many world religions claim to follow your god? How many Christian denominations alone are there (3,500+)?

God isn't the author of confusion indeed...

Satan is behind denominations or demonations. Whereas the Bible says don't say "I of Cephas" or "I of Apollos".

Who is saved? Who are actual Christians and not fake ones. Christendom no doubt is large with over 2 billion, but only a small fraction are considered to be the "little flock" (Luke 12.32).

The little flock are those who agree to these questions esp. those pertaining initial salvation the new birth or new creations of God:

http://biblocality.com/forums/register.p...bf209266b1

Roughly there have been 50 billion souls since Adam and there will be 250 billion in the millennial kingdom. But the New City is only 1379 x 1379 miles which is about the size of India which can comfortably fit 1 billion.

So the savings ratio is 1 in 300 give or take. Most people are going to Hell. At best it is 1 in 50 and at worse 1 in 500. Either way a very small fraction. Those who are actually born-again know this experience intimately as we go about in the world and converse with others.

LOL. Tongue Girl_nails Wellllll, I just gotta ask, are you going to this mythological heaven and if so, will you feel any kind of pain or sorrow? Drinking Beverage

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-08-2014, 08:44 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 08:13 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  My "origin of the universe" comment was meant to try and be a simpler way to tell you about the burden of proof, but nevermind.

(06-08-2014 07:56 PM)hbl Wrote:  We have examined all naturalistic theories

This is not true. We have not yet examined all naturalistic theories. And it is very possible that we can't. If you continue to use this as the bedrock of your argumentation it will never be anything more than a logical fallacy.

I wouldn't bother ivaneus. He is very obviously trying to get a reaction out of us. The folly of the argument from ignorance and eyewitness apostles has been explained to him. He doesn't try and argue, just keeps saying it because he knows its irritating.

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