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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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07-08-2014, 01:55 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(07-08-2014 01:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Jesus

Look, if you don't want to deal with the burden placed on you to find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings at least be honest with yourself that you would prefer to shut your mind down.
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07-08-2014, 02:02 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  Their multiple eyewitness testimony in various group settings has no naturalistic explanation, therefore it must be true.

Demonstrate to us that there were genuine multiple eyewitness testimonies. Then we can come up with a 'naturalistic' explanation.
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07-08-2014, 02:10 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 03:55 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(07-08-2014 01:55 AM)hbl Wrote:  
(07-08-2014 01:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Jesus

Look, if you don't want to deal with the burden placed on you to find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings at least be honest with yourself that you would prefer to shut your mind down.

You have the burden of proof, and considering that you are claiming a miracle occurred (which, by definition, is the least likely thing to happen in any circumstance), your burden of proof is monumental.

You've yet to provide any evidence outside of lies and obfuscation.

You are either one of the most delusional lying-for-Jesus fuckwits I've ever had the dissatisfaction of engaging with, or you are a wonderful Poe. If you are the later, congratulations and well trolled. If you are the former, go drink some bleach.

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07-08-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 09:54 PM)hbl Wrote:  The Bible is the word of God because it proves it so and since you can't find anything wrong with it, it is infallible.

A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992) Jim Meritt

A visual representation of the contradictions in the Bible

So by your own standards the Bible is indeed fallible.
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07-08-2014, 03:40 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 06:06 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 09:37 PM)hbl Wrote:  What are the 4 reasons commonly cited why legends theory fails?

1) Original disciples claimed resurrection from the beginning so there is nothing to embellish.
2) Paul claimed to have seen Jesus, led to his conversion and was in agreement with the original Apostles.
3) James, brother of Jesus, claimed to have seen Jesus resurrected which led to his conversion.
4) Critics need evidence to overturn these points.

Actually they didn't, liar. As all scholars know, the original Gospel of Mark had no resurrection. It ended with an empty tomb. You keep asserting the apostles were eyewitnesses. They were CLAIMED to have been. No scholar asserts the gospels were written during the lifetime of Jesus. YOU have provided NOT ONE reference for that assertion. You are a fucking lying troll. Here to promote your website. Go away, UNLESS you have some references and proof.

You don't. You can't. There is no scholar in the entire world that says the gospels were written during the lifetime of Jesus. You can provide no reference for that CLAIM. Your entire proposition, and (false) claims are based on a fallacy. No one has to refute your CLAIMED "sightings" by apostles until you can prove a. they claimed that, b. the transmittors of the claims are true. Youa have demonstrated neither. In fact, at the end of Matthew, the "sighting" you claim, says : "But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful."

That's hardly convincing, if some were doubtful.

You are a fraud.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-08-2014, 03:43 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 02:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 07:56 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(06-08-2014 07:53 PM)ivaneus Wrote:  Unless you are capable of examining ALL possible explanations, you cannot conclude for certain. Let me try to put it to you in another way: we have no way to know FOR SURE right now what the origin of the universe is (what you call a naturalistic explanation). What we can do is give a best guess based on the evidence that we gather. This is the most honest we can get. We can function perfectly fine without knowing everything. The process of studying everything however, has a myriad of uses. And unfortunately, asserting unsubstantiated information is useless and even harmful.

We have examined all naturalistic theories. Painstaking extensive work has been done by the brightest minds. I don't think you understand what I am referring to naturalistic explanation. I was referring to the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles.

But if you want to change the topic to the origin of the universe, you don't need to know where the first naturalistic event took place; it will suffice to know that it could not happen from nothing. So nature needs a cause outside of itself outside of time and space being uncreated whom we call God.

Who is "we" ? Who are "the brightest minds". More lies from a lying troll.
If what you say was true, the numbers of beliervers would be increasing, not diminishing.
Why are you here anyway ?

You said your fucking god "decreed from before the foundationd of the world bla bla boa ..", and most people are going to hell.
If that crap is true, then how are you supposed to change it ?

The fact is, you yourself don't really buy into your own shit, do you ?

Still waiting for references for your assertions about scholars. Waiting.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-08-2014, 04:30 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 04:33 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Why are you here HBL? You're not convincing anyone. You are ignoring points that refute your statements. Are you here just to promote your website as Bucky suggests?

Do you want us to all join up?

We can if you want us to you know.
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07-08-2014, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 07:12 AM by wazzel.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 09:29 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(06-08-2014 09:17 PM)wazzel Wrote:  There are no contemporary wrightings by the apostles or anyone else about Jesus at the time Jesus was supposed to be alive. There is no recorded eye witness testimony because the people that actually wrote the gospels were not even alive at the time the crucifixion took place.

These mysterious unknown writers you speak of are nowhere to be found. The 4 gospel accounts were written at least in part when Jesus was alive and completed as a whole within a decade of His death on the cross. They were completed before the Apostles were martyred. John refers to himself in John at the cross and makes a further reference in his epistles he was an eyewitness of Jesus resurrected. James makes mention of seeing Jesus alive from the dead leading to his conversion. Peter said he saw Jesus alive from the dead in his epistles also. Mark refers to himself running naked in the street. Matthew writes as a tax collector that he is emphasizing Jesus as king in his account. And Luke was comprehensive stating Acts was part 2 of his former work of Luke. Since Luke made no mention of Paul's death and Paul died around 65 AD that puts Acts around 50 AD. And Luke came before that around 40 AD. Since Luke took from Mark that puts Mark around 35 AD just 2 years after the cross. Additionally Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter in Gal. 1, spent time with James and John as well mentioned in Gal. 2. He said the gospel account they gave him was the same he received from Jesus. So your late dating legends theory falls apart completely, for Paul's association with the Apostles takes us right back to the cross of Jesus the very people who spent 3 years with Jesus. The first churches by Peter, John and James were setup on the eyewitness testimony of Jesus resurrected.

Please explain where you are getting this? It is wrong. I am not a life long atheist. I am an ex-Christian who desperately wanted to be a better one so I studied all of this. The gospels were not written at all during the time Jesus was supposed to be alive. Many biblical scholars (people that study this for a living and are smarter than both you and me on the subject) speculate The gospels were written in the following

Mark some where around 60 AD
Luke around 80 AD and suspected as a revision to Mark for a target audience
Matthew around 90 AD also a suspected revision to Mark for a target audience
John around 100 AD as an independent account

The only one that could have possibly been alive at the time of Jesus would have been the person who wrote Mark, but that person would have been a kid.

Get off the apologetic sites and do some historical research. The truth will set you free.

Edit to add

There were no early churches like we think of churches. Early Christians met in people homes, more like what we would call bible studies, to discuss what they understood as the way. Early leaders were not Popes, but mostly married couples who led these groups. IIRC the first "church" was not built until after Christians gat acceptance from the Roman government, I forget the estimated year.

Quick check says earliest know church building to be around 250AD.
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07-08-2014, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2014 08:41 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(07-08-2014 02:02 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(06-08-2014 07:13 PM)hbl Wrote:  Their multiple eyewitness testimony in various group settings has no naturalistic explanation, therefore it must be true.

Demonstrate to us that there were genuine multiple eyewitness testimonies. Then we can come up with a 'naturalistic' explanation.

I guess this passes for evidence in the silly world of blind apologetics, the obvious answer is all of the writers of the gospels were writing myths and stories, there's the "naturalistic" answer.

To even use words like "naturalistic" is silly.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-08-2014, 07:34 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(06-08-2014 08:57 PM)hbl Wrote:  It's true we have exhausted all naturalistic theories to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles. Therefore, logically, it is true, Jesus is God, raised Himself from the grave, and salvation is only possible through Him. There is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. Consequently, since you reject your Creator's mercy, He rejects you by sending you to Hell.

Let's see now...

I think we have the answer for your non sequiturs....

[Image: upside-down-dog-1.jpg]

Therefore ...

[Image: 64ba1b29a71890a2df6556032e920480.jpg?stmp=1391545952]

... because ...

[Image: asian-women-jarah-mariano.jpg]

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