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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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08-08-2014, 06:54 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Paul's Extensive Testimony and Interaction with the Apostles

Luke has no problem between Paul's appearance and those made to the disciples in Luke 24 and Acts 1.1-11. Luke records both types of appearances of Jesus to the disciples and to Paul.

"Last of all he was seen of me also" (1 Cor. 15.8). "Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" (1 Cor. 9.1). Others saw the light, heard the voice and fell to the ground during when Paul saw Jesus bodily, however because Paul's experience was post-ascension, it may be slightly different.

"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man" (Acts 9.7). This presumes that Paul saw the Man.

"To reveal His Son in me" (Gal. 1.16,18) took three years following the Damascus road experience. Don't mistake this portion as being the bodily appearance. Paul got to know Jesus for three years before becoming an Apostle.

Paul reports knowing some of the disciples personally who had seen Jesus resurrected including Peter, James, and John. Acts confirms this (Acts 9.26-30; 15.1-35). And Paul says in 1 Cor. 15.11 that whether "it was I or they, this is what we preach" referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother" (Gal. 1.18,19). Suffice it to say, they talked about more than just the weather. Years later Paul met up with John. Peter and James present then also.

"Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed" (Gal. 2,1-2,9,11). This was regarding circumcision. James and Barnabas were also at fault with Peter.

"I said to Cephas before them all, If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" (Gal. 2.14) They continued long in discourse.
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08-08-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:48 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 06:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All kinds of people CLAIM all kinds of things.

What matters is what can be proven. See the opening post.

See the opening post regarding what?

A guide to fallacious argumentation?
'How to get to Turtles all the way down in three paragraphs or less'?

If you are going to allege that that mess of unsubstantiated babble is in anyway proof of anything, you are going to have to make drastic edits to it to include a bevy of reliable citations, make the post logically consistent and somehow avoid turtles.

Which of course, you clearly cannot do.

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08-08-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Highest Standards of Historical Record in Antiquity with Multiply Corroborated Facts

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing recorded in antiquity so close to the events that happened and number of sources. Therefore, it is holding the highest of standards of historical record. Jesus has 45 sources of Him within 150 years of His death. Tiberius died on just 4 years after Jesus and only had 9 sources. Actually, Jesus has more sources about Him than any ten figures from antiquity.

Paul said in Gal. 1 & 2 he met James and Peter a few years after the cross as indicated in 1 Cor. 15 in which he says he is delivering what he received from them. Scholars place his conversion two years after the cross. Galatians says it was "3 years" after his conversion he met James and Peter, so that's five years after the cross he met original eyewitness Apostles. And it's safe to say they talked about more than just the weather.

Altogether, there is Paul's writings, oral traditions in creeds, hymns and sermon summaries in various NT books, and writings of the early church fathers such as Polycarp and Clement of Rome who personally knew the Apostles John and Peter. Polycarp was a student of John and Clement of Rome was a friend of Peter. Clement is mentioned in the Bible in addition to extra-Biblical sources.
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08-08-2014, 06:58 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Luke Makes No Mention of Paul's Death His Two Books

Paul died in the Neronian persecution in 64-65 AD. Luke set forth the biography of Paul in Acts and his mission activities but makes no mention of his death. At the end of the book Paul had not yet died. So Acts had to have been written before his death. Had he died the author would have mentioned it especially considering Paul almost died seven times in the Scriptures. Death is important in a biography so that places Acts around 55 A.D.

Luke said in the book of Acts: "The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence" (1.1-5).

The former treaty by Luke to Theophilus was the Gospel of Luke: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed" (1.1-4).

We keep moving back from the 64-65 A.D. Since Acts was written about 55 A.D., Luke would be even earlier around 45 A.D. Even more, Luke took in part from Mark so that places Mark around 35 A.D. just 2 years after the cross. And Mark worked closely with Peter so that places Peter’s two books quite early as well. These primary sources are all within a decade or two after the cross exactly what historians like to see. Amen.
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08-08-2014, 06:58 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:51 PM)hbl Wrote:  Evolution of a resurrection theory actually devolved from the accounts of the 40 days with the disciples to when Paul saw Jesus (Gal. 1.15-16). Paul's experience was more like a vision, yet a vision that affected those with him on the road to Damascus.

Many years after Paul saw the vision on the Damascus road, he testified, "Wherefore . . . I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" (Acts 26.19).

I think that's awesome.

You would.
You are delusional. Prove that Paul said anything of the sort.
There were at least two Pauls writing in Acts. Scholars know that.
Why is it you don't ? They had different philosophies. Which one are you talking about ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:56 PM)hbl Wrote:  Highest Standards of Historical Record in Antiquity with Multiply Corroborated Facts

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing recorded in antiquity so close to the events that happened and number of sources. Therefore, it is holding the highest of standards of historical record. Jesus has 45 sources of Him within 150 years of His death. Tiberius died on just 4 years after Jesus and only had 9 sources. Actually, Jesus has more sources about Him than any ten figures from antiquity.

Paul said in Gal. 1 & 2 he met James and Peter a few years after the cross as indicated in 1 Cor. 15 in which he says he is delivering what he received from them. Scholars place his conversion two years after the cross. Galatians says it was "3 years" after his conversion he met James and Peter, so that's five years after the cross he met original eyewitness Apostles. And it's safe to say they talked about more than just the weather.

Altogether, there is Paul's writings, oral traditions in creeds, hymns and sermon summaries in various NT books, and writings of the early church fathers such as Polycarp and Clement of Rome who personally knew the Apostles John and Peter. Polycarp was a student of John and Clement of Rome was a friend of Peter. Clement is mentioned in the Bible in addition to extra-Biblical sources.

page 52 secnd one down.. your just avoiding my well played argument that debunks your original post.

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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08-08-2014, 07:00 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:56 PM)hbl Wrote:  Highest Standards of Historical Record in Antiquity with Multiply Corroborated Facts

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing recorded in antiquity so close to the events that happened and number of sources. Therefore, it is holding the highest of standards of historical record. Jesus has 45 sources of Him within 150 years of His death. Tiberius died on just 4 years after Jesus and only had 9 sources. Actually, Jesus has more sources about Him than any ten figures from antiquity.

Paul said in Gal. 1 & 2 he met James and Peter a few years after the cross as indicated in 1 Cor. 15 in which he says he is delivering what he received from them. Scholars place his conversion two years after the cross. Galatians says it was "3 years" after his conversion he met James and Peter, so that's five years after the cross he met original eyewitness Apostles. And it's safe to say they talked about more than just the weather.

Altogether, there is Paul's writings, oral traditions in creeds, hymns and sermon summaries in various NT books, and writings of the early church fathers such as Polycarp and Clement of Rome who personally knew the Apostles John and Peter. Polycarp was a student of John and Clement of Rome was a friend of Peter. Clement is mentioned in the Bible in addition to extra-Biblical sources.

Nope. It's the same as Harry Potter being talked about in more than one book.
It's not evidence. It's worthless. They also argued about what was and what was not real. They also admitted they valued deception, and wrote chapters in their books about the value of deception.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
Goddamn, my balls itch..............oh, wait.........ungh.........yeah....that's it.......

Never mind guys, I got it. Much better. Where were we? Oh yeah, CHEESE!!!!!

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08-08-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:54 PM)hbl Wrote:  Paul's Extensive Testimony and Interaction with the Apostles

No reason to believe any of it. No external evidence for any of it. He was a troublemaker who had to bribe them with a gift. They kicked him out of Jerusalem. He said he "received his gospel from no man". He admitted he hallucinated it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2014, 07:05 PM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 06:47 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 06:43 PM)TheBear Wrote:  A mere 80 years is nothing,

The thing is you will forever reject what Jesus did for you so for eternity you separate yourself from your Creator.

Likewise that person in jail even if he lived for 10 million years, he would still have to stay in jail because he will never repent and continue to do as he has always done harming others.

That's why you have to go to Hell.

Okie dokie. Girl_nails

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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