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Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
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09-08-2014, 09:33 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 11:25 PM)hbl Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 09:26 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Guess Mohammad must not be a lie then. Suicide bombers, 9/11, airplane into buildings and all that.

Muhammad was never in the position the Apostles were to save their lives by lying so Muhammad no doubt lied.

The suicide bombers believed in what they were doing, but it doesn't mean it is true, for their faith is based on Jesus never dying on the cross, but what evidence from Muhammad do we have six centuries later to make that claim? It was a straight up lie to reject God's mercy and saving grace by what Jesus did for us on the cross. Such people are going to Hell with you.

Hahahahaha!

Your belief system and your god is the stuff of Mafia Bosses.

"Hey! like, look at all da stuff I done for ya. Love me. Respect me. Or I'll bust your brains in and send you down the East River."


Bloody immoral bastard, your god.

Oh, look! I did find a picture of your god.

[Image: gotti.jpg]

Oh, on second thought, that's John Gotti. Pretty close though.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-08-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 07:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 12:56 AM)hbl Wrote:  Abraham was 18 in 3986 BC and 2015 is the 120th Jubilee from 3986 BC. Christ is about to return with the sign of the Son of Man asteroid Apophis April 13, 2029 so Jesus returns sometime later that year.

Oh, boy. I can't wait!

I mean, I already got to see the world end in 1997, 2000, 2001, 2011, and 2012.

Why do I strongly suspect that as soon as April 14 2029 rolls around, the shit-eating True Believers like you will be carrying on with a new date as if you'd never claimed anything different?

Oh, you young 'uns. Dodgy

You didn't get to experience the ones in 1962, 1967, 1969, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1980, 1981, 3 in 1982, 2 in 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2 in 1991, 2 in 1992, 1993,
4 in 1994 (3 of them by Harold Camping Yes ), another one in '95 by Camping.

Ah, those were the good old end times. Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-08-2014, 09:41 AM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2014 10:30 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(08-08-2014 11:25 PM)hbl Wrote:  Muhammad was never in the position the Apostles were to save their lives by lying so Muhammad no doubt lied.

The suicide bombers believed in what they were doing, but it doesn't mean it is true, for their faith is based on Jesus never dying on the cross, but what evidence from Muhammad do we have six centuries later to make that claim? It was a straight up lie to reject God's mercy and saving grace by what Jesus did for us on the cross. Such people are going to Hell with you.

1. That is what is known in Logic as a non-sequitur. Your(supposed) point does not follow from your premise.
2. You have in no way established that a death on the cross is a prerequisite for what is being discussed.
3. Christian "persecution" is/was a myth, as was *well established* by the Catholic scholar from Notre Dame, Candida Moss.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Persecuti...n+debunked

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-08-2014, 09:46 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 12:12 AM)hbl Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 12:10 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ATHEISTS "have no moral imperative/s"

You said it.

Rapists and non-rapists in your delusion cease to exist side by side to glory of your atheism. Is that really something you want to be proud of?

sigh, the level of your close minded cluelessness is epic.

Allow me to yet again, share some knowledge with you, here is a paper I wrote on this...

Moral Theology is the study of how persons live in response to what God has done for them (Mueller 221).

Morality is concerned with human conduct but goes to a deeper level of personhood, such that our conduct is a reflection of who we are, a reflection of our character (Mueller 221).

Ethics can be defined as a discussion of the formation of human conduct… How responsible human beings capable of critical judgment should live using reflection on fundamental issues in description of concrete cases (Mueller 221).

Conscience is the voice of God written in our hearts, in accordance with the second Vatican Council. Natural law is considered one of the major sources of moral theology and answers the question: how do I know what is good or evil? Christians believe that natural law has been a factor in our decisions of what is morally right and wrong, good and evil (Mueller 222 – 227).

“This people who may personally and individually be moral and good people and have no intention of conflict and harm on others often share a Christian theory called the collective guilt “social sin.” (Mueller 257). The depths that theists go to fabricate the conception of sin knows no bounds, here you can be a good person yet you still have “social sin”. John Paul II said that social sins are “collective behavior of certain social groups, big or small, or even of whole nations or blocks of nations” (Mueller 258). Social sin becomes personal sin of individuals through complicity, indifference, or reluctance of those in a position to exert influence for change who do not do so (Mueller 258).

Catholic social teaching looks to gospel teaching to form the moral foundation the Catholic approach to questions of social justice. And assist the disciple in the ongoing task of reflecting on the challenge of Jesus in the sermon on the Mount and in discerning what it means in a consumer, technological, and globalized society to be poor in spirit and to embrace a sorrowing and the lowly (Mueller 260).


Secular morality is the aspect of philosophy that deals with morality outside of religious traditions. Modern examples include humanism, freethinking, and most versions of consequentialism. Additional philosophies with ancient roots include those such as skepticism and virtue ethics. Greg M. Epstein states that, "much of ancient Far Eastern thought is deeply concerned with human goodness without placing much if any stock in the importance of gods or spirits. Other philosophers have proposed various ideas about how to determine right and wrong actions. An example is Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative: "The idea that actions can only be considered moral if they could be imitated by anyone else and produce good results."

A variety of positions are apparent regarding the relationship between religion and morality. Some believe that religion is necessary as a guide to a moral life. This idea has been with us for nearly 2,000 years. There are various thoughts regarding how this idea has arisen. For example, Greg Epstein suggests that this idea is connected to a concerted effort by theists to question nonreligious ideas: "conservative authorities have, since ancient days, had a clever counter strategy against religious skepticism—convincing people that atheism is evil, and then accusing their enemies of being atheists.

Others eschew the idea that religion is required to provide a guide to right and wrong behavior, such as the Westminster Dictionary of Christian Ethics which states that religion and morality "are to be defined differently and have no definitional connections with each other". Some believe that religions provide poor guides to moral behavior.

Popular atheist author and biologist Richard Dawkins, writing in The God Delusion, has stated that religious people have committed a wide variety of acts and held certain beliefs through history that are considered today to be morally repugnant. He has stated that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis held broadly Christian religious beliefs that inspired the Holocaust on account of antisemitic Christian doctrine, that Christians have traditionally imposed unfair restrictions on the legal and civil rights of women, and that Christians have condoned slavery of some form or description throughout most of Christianity's history. Dawkins insists that, since Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible have changed over the span of history so that what was formerly seen as permissible is now seen as impermissible, it is intellectually dishonest for them to believe theism provides an absolute moral foundation apart from secular intuition. In addition, he argued that since Christians and other religious groups do not acknowledge the binding authority of all parts of their holy texts (e.g., The books of Exodus and Leviticus state that those who work on the Sabbath and those caught performing acts of homosexuality, respectively, were to be put to death.), they are already capable of distinguishing "right" from "wrong." (Boghossian 248).

The well-known passage from Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, "If God is dead, all is permitted," suggests that non-believers would not hold moral lives without the possibility of punishment by a God. This is absurd as all one has to do is look at Scandinavian countries to see that this largely atheist area enjoys being at the top tier of civilization.

Phil Zuckerman, associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College in California, in his article, "Is Faith Good For Us" states the following: "A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

A study by Gregory S. Paul, entitled "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look," was done and the study's conclusion was that there was an inverse relationship between religion and poor societal health rates. What that means is that the higher the level of religious belief in a country, the lower the level of societal health (more violent crimes, suicides, teen pregnancies, etc.).

So it seems that a plethora of evidence exists to show that not only do we not need religion in our lives to be good humans, but that having it in our lives can be counter-productive and unhealthy.

Works cited


Mueller, J.J., Theological Foundations: Concepts and Methods for Understanding the Christian Faith. Winona: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2011. Print.



Boghossian, Peter. A Manual for Creating Atheists. Durham: Pitchstone Publishing, 2013. Print.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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09-08-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 09:46 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 12:12 AM)hbl Wrote:  You said it.

Rapists and non-rapists in your delusion cease to exist side by side to glory of your atheism. Is that really something you want to be proud of?

sigh, the level of your close minded cluelessness is epic.

Allow me to yet again, share some knowledge with you, here is a paper I wrote on this...

Moral Theology is the study of how persons live in response to what God has done for them (Mueller 221).

Morality is concerned with human conduct but goes to a deeper level of personhood, such that our conduct is a reflection of who we are, a reflection of our character (Mueller 221).

Ethics can be defined as a discussion of the formation of human conduct… How responsible human beings capable of critical judgment should live using reflection on fundamental issues in description of concrete cases (Mueller 221).

Conscience is the voice of God written in our hearts, in accordance with the second Vatican Council. Natural law is considered one of the major sources of moral theology and answers the question: how do I know what is good or evil? Christians believe that natural law has been a factor in our decisions of what is morally right and wrong, good and evil (Mueller 222 – 227).

“This people who may personally and individually be moral and good people and have no intention of conflict and harm on others often share a Christian theory called the collective guilt “social sin.” (Mueller 257). The depths that theists go to fabricate the conception of sin knows no bounds, here you can be a good person yet you still have “social sin”. John Paul II said that social sins are “collective behavior of certain social groups, big or small, or even of whole nations or blocks of nations” (Mueller 258). Social sin becomes personal sin of individuals through complicity, indifference, or reluctance of those in a position to exert influence for change who do not do so (Mueller 258).

Catholic social teaching looks to gospel teaching to form the moral foundation the Catholic approach to questions of social justice. And assist the disciple in the ongoing task of reflecting on the challenge of Jesus in the sermon on the Mount and in discerning what it means in a consumer, technological, and globalized society to be poor in spirit and to embrace a sorrowing and the lowly (Mueller 260).


Secular morality is the aspect of philosophy that deals with morality outside of religious traditions. Modern examples include humanism, freethinking, and most versions of consequentialism. Additional philosophies with ancient roots include those such as skepticism and virtue ethics. Greg M. Epstein states that, "much of ancient Far Eastern thought is deeply concerned with human goodness without placing much if any stock in the importance of gods or spirits. Other philosophers have proposed various ideas about how to determine right and wrong actions. An example is Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative: "The idea that actions can only be considered moral if they could be imitated by anyone else and produce good results."

A variety of positions are apparent regarding the relationship between religion and morality. Some believe that religion is necessary as a guide to a moral life. This idea has been with us for nearly 2,000 years. There are various thoughts regarding how this idea has arisen. For example, Greg Epstein suggests that this idea is connected to a concerted effort by theists to question nonreligious ideas: "conservative authorities have, since ancient days, had a clever counter strategy against religious skepticism—convincing people that atheism is evil, and then accusing their enemies of being atheists.

Others eschew the idea that religion is required to provide a guide to right and wrong behavior, such as the Westminster Dictionary of Christian Ethics which states that religion and morality "are to be defined differently and have no definitional connections with each other". Some believe that religions provide poor guides to moral behavior.

Popular atheist author and biologist Richard Dawkins, writing in The God Delusion, has stated that religious people have committed a wide variety of acts and held certain beliefs through history that are considered today to be morally repugnant. He has stated that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis held broadly Christian religious beliefs that inspired the Holocaust on account of antisemitic Christian doctrine, that Christians have traditionally imposed unfair restrictions on the legal and civil rights of women, and that Christians have condoned slavery of some form or description throughout most of Christianity's history. Dawkins insists that, since Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible have changed over the span of history so that what was formerly seen as permissible is now seen as impermissible, it is intellectually dishonest for them to believe theism provides an absolute moral foundation apart from secular intuition. In addition, he argued that since Christians and other religious groups do not acknowledge the binding authority of all parts of their holy texts (e.g., The books of Exodus and Leviticus state that those who work on the Sabbath and those caught performing acts of homosexuality, respectively, were to be put to death.), they are already capable of distinguishing "right" from "wrong." (Boghossian 248).

The well-known passage from Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, "If God is dead, all is permitted," suggests that non-believers would not hold moral lives without the possibility of punishment by a God. This is absurd as all one has to do is look at Scandinavian countries to see that this largely atheist area enjoys being at the top tier of civilization.

Phil Zuckerman, associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College in California, in his article, "Is Faith Good For Us" states the following: "A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

A study by Gregory S. Paul, entitled "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look," was done and the study's conclusion was that there was an inverse relationship between religion and poor societal health rates. What that means is that the higher the level of religious belief in a country, the lower the level of societal health (more violent crimes, suicides, teen pregnancies, etc.).

So it seems that a plethora of evidence exists to show that not only do we not need religion in our lives to be good humans, but that having it in our lives can be counter-productive and unhealthy.

Works cited


Mueller, J.J., Theological Foundations: Concepts and Methods for Understanding the Christian Faith. Winona: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2011. Print.



Boghossian, Peter. A Manual for Creating Atheists. Durham: Pitchstone Publishing, 2013. Print.

I doubt he/she will read it and even if he/she does it won't make a a dent in the willful ignorance of this person's mind.

People like this are sooooo far out in left field that they've backed themselves into another field and a completely different baseball game.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-08-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 09:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 07:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, boy. I can't wait!

I mean, I already got to see the world end in 1997, 2000, 2001, 2011, and 2012.

Why do I strongly suspect that as soon as April 14 2029 rolls around, the shit-eating True Believers like you will be carrying on with a new date as if you'd never claimed anything different?

Oh, you young 'uns. Dodgy

You didn't get to experience the ones in 1962, 1967, 1969, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1980, 1981, 3 in 1982, 2 in 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2 in 1991, 2 in 1992, 1993,
4 in 1994 (3 of them by Harold Camping Yes ), another one in '95 by Camping.

Ah, those were the good old end times. Big Grin


Wow, if you had some sort of 'Frequent Apocalypse Survivor Card', by now you'd have earned yourself like 3 free Apocalypse's (maybe with a coffee or something) by now. Consider

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09-08-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 09:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 11:25 PM)hbl Wrote:  Muhammad was never in the position the Apostles were to save their lives by lying so Muhammad no doubt lied.

The suicide bombers believed in what they were doing, but it doesn't mean it is true, for their faith is based on Jesus never dying on the cross, but what evidence from Muhammad do we have six centuries later to make that claim? It was a straight up lie to reject God's mercy and saving grace by what Jesus did for us on the cross. Such people are going to Hell with you.

1. That is what is known in Logic as a non-sequitur. You (supposed) point does not follow from your premise.
2. You have in no way established that a death on the cross is a prerequisite for what is being discussed.
3. Christian "persecution" is/was a myth, as was *well established* by the Catholic scholar from Notre Dame, Candida Moss.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Persecuti...n+debunked

$10 says hbl does not consider Catholics as True Christians™. Drinking Beverage

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09-08-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
I would take that but I have no clue who you are.

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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09-08-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
He already did the "not real christians" thing.

(09-08-2014 12:24 AM)hbl Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 12:22 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Except that he was a Christian. A devote Catholic

Roman Catholics are not Christians for they believe in salvation by works; in other words, they believe they could lose salvation tomorrow. They believe in other weird stuff like sinless Mary even though all that is born of the flesh is flesh. The Bible calls the RCC the great harlot in Rev. 17 that "makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications" (Rev. 14.8).

Whereas a Christian is someone according to John 10.28 who is once saved always saved "they shall never perish."

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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09-08-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: Why I Don't Believe in Atheism
(09-08-2014 10:12 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  He already did the "not real christians" thing.

(09-08-2014 12:24 AM)hbl Wrote:  Roman Catholics are not Christians for they believe in salvation by works; in other words, they believe they could lose salvation tomorrow. They believe in other weird stuff like sinless Mary even though all that is born of the flesh is flesh. The Bible calls the RCC the great harlot in Rev. 17 that "makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications" (Rev. 14.8).

Whereas a Christian is someone according to John 10.28 who is once saved always saved "they shall never perish."


Because, of course, only the Christians that happen to 100% agree with this one deluded fucknut are the True Christians™. Everyone else throughout history that has found guidance and had faith in Jesus have all been mouth-breathing pretenders who awate eternal damnation for not being able to correctly ascertain exactly how they were supposed to kiss the ass of their (not at all contradictory and logically impossible) emotionally stunted petulant trans-dimensional space wizard.

And his son...

Who is also himself...

Makes perfect sense...

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