Why I Doubted My Own Vision
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11-01-2015, 10:27 PM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
(11-01-2015 10:23 PM)AlephBet Wrote:  
(11-01-2015 10:13 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I know what the song is about. I'm fully aware of Van Morrison's inspirational music. But you're a loon.

Judge yourself in my reflection. You will eventually see yourself in it.

Someone has a god complex, Looney Toonz. I won't exchange with you anymore because I don't want to hijack this thread.

Shoo-loon.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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11-01-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
AlephBet, please don't reply in this thread any more. I'm asking you nicely and politely.
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11-01-2015, 11:49 PM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
Clockwork,

I don't doubt this happened to you and glad you understand it was self-inflicted. The human mind is capable of so many things. Daydreams, nocturnal dreams, hallucinations, meditation, etc., are all scientifically proven aspects of the mind. Kinda spooky what you saw, but only because your mind concocted it, not that it was supernatural.

Thanks for sharing.

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11-01-2015, 11:59 PM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
(11-01-2015 10:23 PM)AlephBet Wrote:  
(11-01-2015 10:13 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I know what the song is about. I'm fully aware of Van Morrison's inspirational music. But you're a loon.

Judge yourself in my reflection. You will eventually see yourself in it.


Jesus fucking christ, why would anyone want to see themselves in your reflection. Holy shit, you've got an ego the size the Atlantic ocean.


Get in a dingy and sail away.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-01-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
Did you get to be all level 7 atheist outta the deal? That's what I got from being a prophet - besides the tee shirt. It is my contention that excess of ego leads one to conclude such experiences are divine, that such people need to see themselves as specially "chosen" in some manner.

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12-01-2015, 03:02 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
I've believed in and done 'energy healing' before I became detached from spiritual stuff. I wanted to believe I had something so special about me that I could change the world just by imagining things. I also wanted to change how I have felt about myself. I wanted to make predictions, change people, be psychic. People would encourage me, saying they felt something, but sometimes they didn't. I believe I had something special. But there was one little thing nagging at me all the time, that kernel of doubt. For example I knew that you couldn't move anything with your mind, yet I believed in spirits that would help me and interact with the universe; they were imaginary friends.

The time I started to really question all the things about spiritual stuff was when someone shared with me a few YouTube clips of people supposedly demonstrating Qi. The YouTube comments on all videos posted how fake and staged it was. I didn't want to see it but the investigation part of me looked them over and found that the people being 'pushed' were terrible actors. They weren't being thrown backwards by some invisible force, they were throwing themselves backward, sometimes hopping on one foot for some reason. I thought, Hm, that's interesting, and moved on. But that seed of doubt grew and made me change how I looked at everything.

There was one thing I knew was bullshit though: Breatharianism. Basically, you stared at the sun for energy and didn't eat or drink anything. I knew of one online friend who tried it and he complained of aches and cramps and I believe stopped, saying he isn't ready. We ain't plants.

Overall, I get you Clockwork. We worked out figuring what's self delusion and what is actual reality. We can't always trust what our minds see.
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12-01-2015, 03:15 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
That's really quite interesting. The most interesting part though is that you managed to realize that the vision was some sort of natural hallucination. Most people would react differently to such an experience, ending up believing all sorts of crazy stuff.
So, kudos to you for that Thumbsup

Reading your post, I thought about replying with something in the lines of "yabut tell that to a theist, and he'll say it was an actual supernatural vision". Then I read the second post and reality proved me right.

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12-01-2015, 05:09 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
(11-01-2015 10:25 PM)AlephBet Wrote:  The residual self-image. Yes. See yourself yet?

Psychobabble crimped from The Matrix, how original. Drinking Beverage

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12-01-2015, 06:24 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
(11-01-2015 09:46 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Long ago, before I realized I was atheist, I was looking into where my beliefs were taking me. I researched ways to find out more about myself, my psyche, and my "soul." I discovered a modified version of tratak, a type of meditation. This one used a mirror. No, I won't explain exactly what the method was; you'll see why not.

Before now, only a handful of people ever about me having a vision. I won't go into great detail, since I reserve that for a very few people in my life (so far, only three). Also, just thinking about it sends shivers up my spine.

I performed this meditation many times, each time getting a little closer and a little deeper. After a long time, I was no longer in the mirror, just the wall behind me. Only my eyes remained. Then the vision started. It wasn't the nice, sweet, enlightening vision you normally hear about. Mine was full of horrible, frightening images. They all looked real. Not in a dreamy ethereal fog, but as if everything was happening right there in front of me. Since that vision, no images of demons or any image in a horror movie or any photograph of a crime scene scare me. However, to this day, I hate mirrors. Not in a normal way; I want to smash almost every mirror I come across.

But here's the thing: Even then, I didn't believe that it was sent from any divine being. I believed, as I do now, that it all came from inside my own brain. It wasn't some sort of collective consciousness or universal energy that I had tapped into. I just merely had some sort of waking realistic "dream." I never once thought some deity or deities had deemed me worthy of their connection.

Nothing to this day has convinced or will convince me that this vision made me special to any supernatural being or force. It was concocted by my own neurons. The only regret I have is that I didn't do this with some sort of brain scan going on.

That's why when I hear of people having prophetic dreams or visions, I still don't believe them. Been there, done that. And who would have thought that an atheist would have a vision, huh?

When I was filled with the holy spirit in my teens, it was quite an emotional numinous experience and I was able to babble incoherently afterwards, when people in my church gave their assent to being able to babble incoherently and said that they do it too, it makes for a very exclusive in-group.

Just like you, eventually I had to evaluate this experience rationally. There never seemed to be any tie to my spirituality and this phenomenon. I could tell god to f-off in one breath and then speak in tongues a second later. That really didn't fit with what I was being told about this babble, then you see all of these people part of your spirit-filled in-group being total assholes. The disconnect between what you were told and what you actually see became too much to ignore.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-01-2015, 06:27 AM
RE: Why I Doubted My Own Vision
(11-01-2015 10:06 PM)AlephBet Wrote:  
(11-01-2015 09:46 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Long ago, before I realized I was atheist, I was looking into where my beliefs were taking me. I researched ways to find out more about myself, my psyche, and my "soul." I discovered a modified version of tratak, a type of meditation. This one used a mirror. No, I won't explain exactly what the method was; you'll see why not.

Before now, only a handful of people ever about me having a vision. I won't go into great detail, since I reserve that for a very few people in my life (so far, only three). Also, just thinking about it sends shivers up my spine.

I performed this meditation many times, each time getting a little closer and a little deeper. After a long time, I was no longer in the mirror, just the wall behind me. Only my eyes remained. Then the vision started. It wasn't the nice, sweet, enlightening vision you normally hear about. Mine was full of horrible, frightening images. They all looked real. Not in a dreamy ethereal fog, but as if everything was happening right there in front of me. Since that vision, no images of demons or any image in a horror movie or any photograph of a crime scene scare me. However, to this day, I hate mirrors. Not in a normal way; I want to smash almost every mirror I come across.

But here's the thing: Even then, I didn't believe that it was sent from any divine being. I believed, as I do now, that it all came from inside my own brain. It wasn't some sort of collective consciousness or universal energy that I had tapped into. I just merely had some sort of waking realistic "dream." I never once thought some deity or deities had deemed me worthy of their connection.

Nothing to this day has convinced or will convince me that this vision made me special to any supernatural being or force. It was concocted by my own neurons. The only regret I have is that I didn't do this with some sort of brain scan going on.

That's why when I hear of people having prophetic dreams or visions, I still don't believe them. Been there, done that. And who would have thought that an atheist would have a vision, huh?

You met the dweller on the theshold. This is a vision of yourself in your current state of mind. The scriptures related to this (Upanishads) note that you must be prepared (righteous) in order to get past the dweller.

In the Bible, the dweller for Adam is Yahweh. All of Mankind is a mirror of the Son of God. Before Jesus could silence Satan, the higher mind was required to do this as Yahweh. Jesus then did it when he met Satan in the Desert.

Zachariah 3

3 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

The dweller is your own fear. Just as Yahweh was self-righteous, dividing his own offspring, he was the mind of Adam to overcome. By this, there is an accuser (Satan) there to deny access to the tree of life. The flaming sword is what you encountered as the dweller on the threshold (Between heaven and hell).

You must overcome yourself first. To do this, you follow the path of Christ. Giving is the key to suffering for others. Once you realize your place in the tree of life as a branch of the whole, you are self-realized. From this, you love others and can never harm them. Your fear is conquered by denying the accuser his accusation.

You have overcome the dweller. Presently, you are still locked in fear and disbelief that a larger reality exists.

Look up the term.

Here is the peer reviewed version as a citation. Read the lyrics.




Great now I'm scared to look in the mirror Blink

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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