Why I LOVE hell.
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22-09-2014, 12:30 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(22-09-2014 12:09 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 11:50 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Reading the Bible, God definitely sounds like the bad guy, and Satan sounds like the good guy, but since he didn't win the war, God's propaganda makes him out to be the bad guy. This would really make for a fantastic movie.

That WOULD be a great movie.

That sounds like the new Noah film; where the designated bad guy spends the entire film trying to save the lives of other humans.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-09-2014, 03:05 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2014 03:18 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile

You don't even have the brains to be a boot licking toadie to a tyranical mass murder that actually exists so you picked a fake made up one from a primitive fucking speck of sand in one of the most ignorant times and places in history. A fucking genius you are. That you are happy that people who engage in finite crimes are punished infinity is unjust, wicked, and revolting. That you are also a coward with a complete lack of morals outside "might makes right" is further abhorrent.

You are a disgusting and morally reprehensible human being and when you die you not only deserve the nothingness coming your way but I hope we blast your dead body into the sun because I don't want even your rotting corpse debasing this goodly frame the Earth.


Oh and before I forget: hell is made up you fucking child, grow up.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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22-09-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(20-09-2014 10:12 AM)hell-lover Wrote:  Hell is the most perfect place God ever created. It is the place where his enemies and all that is unjust can burn forever. I thank God everyday for hell knowing the unrighteous will get their just due.

It's not often I can read a single post from a user and realize that I should just put them on ignore and not ever consider taking them off. Congratulations, I guess. Have fun with your morally reprehensible make-believe.
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22-09-2014, 07:30 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2014 07:52 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile

Define god.

Which god?

"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." (KJV Psalms 82.1)

Your cute signature says, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

My counter: "But whosoever shall say 'Thou fool' shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22 Yes

Now quit running and go to the boxing ring so you and I can have a conversation, don't be scared, I know having one's beliefs dismantled is a humbling experience, but it is a worthy one. You may actually find enlightenment. Knowledge is so empowering, come get some.

Click here:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...o-a-debate



EDIT: and before you play the "my bible doesn't say that", allow me to say, that should make you wonder why so many versions exist, it is because the christian apologists keep getting painted into a corner over made up scripture, so they change it. Lets take a look at Psalms 82.1:

New International Version
A psalm of Asaph. God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the "gods":

New Living Translation
A psalm of Asaph. God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:

English Standard Version
A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

New American Standard Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers.

King James Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
A psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods:"

International Standard Version
God takes his stand in the divine assembly; among the divine beings he renders judgment:

NET Bible
A psalm of Asaph. God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
God stands in the assembly of the Angels and among the Angels he will judge.

GOD'S WORD Translation
[A psalm by Asaph.] God takes his place in his own assembly. He pronounces judgment among the gods:

Jubilee Bible 2000
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

King James 2000 Bible
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

American King James Version
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

American Standard Version
God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.

Douay-Rheims Bible
A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.

Darby Bible Translation
{A Psalm of Asaph.} God standeth in the assembly of God, he judgeth among the gods.

English Revised Version
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; he judgeth among the gods.

Webster's Bible Translation
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

World English Bible
God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.

Young's Literal Translation
-- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

Notice the vast majority are in line with the KJV, some others have taken creative license to change the word gods (plural) to "angels", "divine beings" or "rulers" lol......yeah. The oldest version on this list I believe is the Douay-Rheims, which *gasp* says the same thing as the KJV. Now, you can tear down each of these versions one way or another and identify translation errors (speaking of translation errors only, as all bibles can be easily and systematically debunked) , because that is now widely known among biblical scholars. Read your bible, actually read it, think, evolve beyond the myth.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-09-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 09:26 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 09:00 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  But in the internal logic of Christianity, there isn't "more" or "less" good or "more" or "less" Christian.

You're getting confused by televangelist sin-hierarchy crap. In Christianity, you either got it or you don't. So either you are a Christian and morally good and going to heaven, or non-Christian and morally evil and going to hell.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm

Where did I say Word One about more or less Christian, or more or less good? Leave aside the Hitler versus Atheist example, I brought it up less as a statement about good versus evil, and more as a hypothetical to help clarify the OP's opinion about the standards by which people are sent to hell. (Ye gads that link is wordy... and apparently unrelated to the topic.) Ultimately, I'm asking why this system.... as a WHOLE, not just the believe-in-Jesus escape clause... is praiseworthy.

And for the record, I try not to get dragged into the debate of who is a "true" Christian and who isn't, who has the true depiction of the faith and who does not. If some consensus of true Christianity emerges among a majority of people who identify as Christian, I'll use it under the model of common usage defining language. Otherwise, I have no clue what a person means or what their unspoken assumptions are on the subject. Even if I knew what the correct interpretation of all this was, I'd have no basis for assuming that whomever I was speaking to was working off that correct interpretation. If you clarify what you mean by your distinction vis-a-vis televangelists, I'll attempt to use that definition within the scope of the conversation and speak to you where you're at. Otherwise, there's no way to communicate on the topic, because I could never meet you where you are.

But okay. You're dividing it up into two possibilities, and only two. You're saying that "Christian but morally evil and going to hell" is an impossibility... and maybe that's even a semantic tautology, depending on your exact meaning of "morally evil" and "Christian". (It's worth noting that your link does define moral good and evil only in terms of context of a moral order, without taking a stance on what that moral order might be. It's a categorical or functional definition, rather than a substantive one.) But essentially, what you're saying is that all morally good people are, ipso facto, Christians, by... what? Tautology? You're not saying whether they know they are Christians, or whether they have to go through various rituals or prayers or baptisms, or even whether they have to believe that a god exists. You're saying very little on the topic... so little that I am having trouble divining any significant meaning in it at all.

So let me put the same hypothetical to you, in an effort to get you to clarify what you mean about moral good and whether someone is a Christian. Hitler, repenting (EDIT: honestly and truly repenting, not just an act) and going through the rituals in his last three minutes of life. Heaven or hell? (Bonus question: Christian or not Christian?) Atheist, living what most people would judge a morally good life, including charity, golden rule, speaking truth to power, but believing that the Bible story and the Christian god are factually false. Heaven or hell? (Same bonus question.) How do you see this as playing out?

Hitler: Heaven, a Christian

Atheist: Hell, not a Christian

Hitler has taken the Christian God's offer of salvation up, and the Atheist has not. It's so very simple. Who do you think is worthy of salvation?

Are you vindictive and wish punishment on the contrite?
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22-09-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
Oh... It's one of THESE posts. This is entirely unnecesary. As it turns out, atheism is simply logically absurd. Proof that God exists

Truth seeker.
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22-09-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(22-09-2014 08:42 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Oh... It's one of THESE posts. This is entirely unnecesary. As it turns out, atheism is simply logically absurd. Proof that God exists

It appears that your mind has been permanently damaged.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-09-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(22-09-2014 09:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-09-2014 08:42 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Oh... It's one of THESE posts. This is entirely unnecesary. As it turns out, atheism is simply logically absurd. Proof that God exists

It appears that your mind has been permanently damaged.

Indeed. Weeping

Truth seeker.
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22-09-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(20-09-2014 10:12 AM)hell-lover Wrote:  Hell is the most perfect place God ever created. It is the place where his enemies and all that is unjust can burn forever. I thank God everyday for hell knowing the unrighteous will get their just due.

Your god sounds like a super guy.Dodgy
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22-09-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(22-09-2014 08:37 AM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 09:26 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Where did I say Word One about more or less Christian, or more or less good? Leave aside the Hitler versus Atheist example, I brought it up less as a statement about good versus evil, and more as a hypothetical to help clarify the OP's opinion about the standards by which people are sent to hell. (Ye gads that link is wordy... and apparently unrelated to the topic.) Ultimately, I'm asking why this system.... as a WHOLE, not just the believe-in-Jesus escape clause... is praiseworthy.

And for the record, I try not to get dragged into the debate of who is a "true" Christian and who isn't, who has the true depiction of the faith and who does not. If some consensus of true Christianity emerges among a majority of people who identify as Christian, I'll use it under the model of common usage defining language. Otherwise, I have no clue what a person means or what their unspoken assumptions are on the subject. Even if I knew what the correct interpretation of all this was, I'd have no basis for assuming that whomever I was speaking to was working off that correct interpretation. If you clarify what you mean by your distinction vis-a-vis televangelists, I'll attempt to use that definition within the scope of the conversation and speak to you where you're at. Otherwise, there's no way to communicate on the topic, because I could never meet you where you are.

But okay. You're dividing it up into two possibilities, and only two. You're saying that "Christian but morally evil and going to hell" is an impossibility... and maybe that's even a semantic tautology, depending on your exact meaning of "morally evil" and "Christian". (It's worth noting that your link does define moral good and evil only in terms of context of a moral order, without taking a stance on what that moral order might be. It's a categorical or functional definition, rather than a substantive one.) But essentially, what you're saying is that all morally good people are, ipso facto, Christians, by... what? Tautology? You're not saying whether they know they are Christians, or whether they have to go through various rituals or prayers or baptisms, or even whether they have to believe that a god exists. You're saying very little on the topic... so little that I am having trouble divining any significant meaning in it at all.

So let me put the same hypothetical to you, in an effort to get you to clarify what you mean about moral good and whether someone is a Christian. Hitler, repenting (EDIT: honestly and truly repenting, not just an act) and going through the rituals in his last three minutes of life. Heaven or hell? (Bonus question: Christian or not Christian?) Atheist, living what most people would judge a morally good life, including charity, golden rule, speaking truth to power, but believing that the Bible story and the Christian god are factually false. Heaven or hell? (Same bonus question.) How do you see this as playing out?

Hitler: Heaven, a Christian

Atheist: Hell, not a Christian

Hitler has taken the Christian God's offer of salvation up, and the Atheist has not. It's so very simple. Who do you think is worthy of salvation?

Are you vindictive and wish punishment on the contrite?

No, I'm not. I'm not the one extolling the perfection of hell. That would be the thread's original author. Personally, I regard the entire concept as grotesque, regardless of the moral quality or contrition of the damned. What purpose would be served by having a hell of torment and torture, rather than (for example) simple oblivion? Whatever deterrence is offered by the story (and it's little... after all, increasing punishment is shown not to greatly increase deterrence, and in any event the slim-to-non-existent evidence that the sentence will ever be carried out makes it not much of a deterrent) could be accomplished just as effectively by a myth of hell, an empty threat that need never be followed through on. Beyond that, its only purpose seems to be suffering for the sake of suffering, inflicting torment on people because someone (not me) thinks their torment is a desirable end in and of itself.

And like I said, I have to ask, because different Christians (or at least different people who identify as Christians) come down in different places on the topic. They have different theological takes (usually given to them by their denominations) of who gets damned and who does not. So no, it's not obvious, and it's not just me. The standard you believe in is simple once explained, but there was no grounds for assuming that it was the standard you believed in before you explained it, as opposed to several other (also simple) standards believed in by other people who call themselves Christians.

If anything, choosing to set up the system as described in the OP (rather than one of oblivion for those not let into heaven) seems to qualify as falling under your linked standard of moral evil. It would inflict tremendous suffering upon the majority of humanity, for no purpose other than to inflict suffering. And the omniscient, omnipotent being we are to believe set up this system can hardly claim ignorance or helplessness to do otherwise.
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