Why I LOVE hell.
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21-09-2014, 08:58 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile

And thus was invented sheeple.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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21-09-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:52 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 08:29 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  The Christian God isn't fair by human standards. The whole "I am good, it is wrong that good things aren't happening to me" thing is wildly hubiristic, if you ask me.

Agreed on the first point, at least as God is depicted in the Bible and some swaths of Christianity. Regarding the second, IF we believe that such a God existed and favored/rewarded good people, as large sections of Christianity do believe, then good people getting sent to hell becomes a major theological sticking point... though only to those sections of Christianity, not to all Christians as a whole.

Part (one of many parts) of what I'm trying to figure out is why either of these two points (God not being fair, and God allowing bad things to happen to good people) would inspire gratitude, trust, moral praise, or prayers of thanks.

But in the internal logic of Christianity, there isn't "more" or "less" good or "more" or "less" Christian.

You're getting confused by televangelist sin-hierarchy crap. In Christianity, you either got it or you don't. So either you are a Christian and morally good and going to heaven, or non-Christian and morally evil and going to hell.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm
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21-09-2014, 09:02 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 09:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile

Actually god "deciding" things is incoherent. It's meaningless. It means your god operates in a temporal environment. So sad. Too bad.

Since you're obviously a newbie at this preachy-weachy thingy, you first need to learn some rules. BEFORE you start mumbling on about your Babble, you must first establish it has any authority. You haven't done that. Obviously you don't have the educational background to do that.

You can start here : "How Not To Share Your Faith, The Seven Deadly Sins of Apologetics".
http://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Share-Your...+the+faith

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-09-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile
What if there really is not God and "God" is actually the one you normally think of as "Satan" pretending to be all good in order to take total advantage of the human race... how would you know the difference if you aren't willing to question? Consider Also, not questioning is exactly how so many Nazi's followed Hitler in carrying out his evil. Dodgy

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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21-09-2014, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 11:38 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 09:00 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 08:52 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Agreed on the first point, at least as God is depicted in the Bible and some swaths of Christianity. Regarding the second, IF we believe that such a God existed and favored/rewarded good people, as large sections of Christianity do believe, then good people getting sent to hell becomes a major theological sticking point... though only to those sections of Christianity, not to all Christians as a whole.

Part (one of many parts) of what I'm trying to figure out is why either of these two points (God not being fair, and God allowing bad things to happen to good people) would inspire gratitude, trust, moral praise, or prayers of thanks.

But in the internal logic of Christianity, there isn't "more" or "less" good or "more" or "less" Christian.

You're getting confused by televangelist sin-hierarchy crap. In Christianity, you either got it or you don't. So either you are a Christian and morally good and going to heaven, or non-Christian and morally evil and going to hell.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm

Where did I say Word One about more or less Christian, or more or less good? Leave aside the Hitler versus Atheist example, I brought it up less as a statement about good versus evil, and more as a hypothetical to help clarify the OP's opinion about the standards by which people are sent to hell. (Ye gads that link is wordy... and apparently unrelated to the topic.) Ultimately, I'm asking why this system.... as a WHOLE, not just the believe-in-Jesus escape clause... is praiseworthy.

And for the record, I try not to get dragged into the debate of who is a "true" Christian and who isn't, who has the true depiction of the faith and who does not. If some consensus of true Christianity emerges among a majority of people who identify as Christian, I'll use it under the model of common usage defining language. Otherwise, I have no clue what a person means or what their unspoken assumptions are on the subject. Even if I knew what the correct interpretation of all this was, I'd have no basis for assuming that whomever I was speaking to was working off that correct interpretation. If you clarify what you mean by your distinction vis-a-vis televangelists, I'll attempt to use that definition within the scope of the conversation and speak to you where you're at. Otherwise, there's no way to communicate on the topic, because I could never meet you where you are.

But okay. You're dividing it up into two possibilities, and only two. You're saying that "Christian but morally evil and going to hell" is an impossibility... and maybe that's even a semantic tautology, depending on your exact meaning of "morally evil" and "Christian". (It's worth noting that your link does define moral good and evil only in terms of context of a moral order, without taking a stance on what that moral order might be. It's a categorical or functional definition, rather than a substantive one.) But essentially, what you're saying is that all morally good people are, ipso facto, Christians, by... what? Tautology? You're not saying whether they know they are Christians, or whether they have to go through various rituals or prayers or baptisms, or even whether they have to believe that a god exists. You're saying very little on the topic... so little that I am having trouble divining any significant meaning in it at all.

So let me put the same hypothetical to you, in an effort to get you to clarify what you mean about moral good and whether someone is a Christian. Hitler, repenting (EDIT: honestly and truly repenting, not just an act) and going through the rituals in his last three minutes of life. Heaven or hell? (Bonus question: Christian or not Christian?) Atheist, living what most people would judge a morally good life, including charity, golden rule, speaking truth to power, but believing that the Bible story and the Christian god are factually false. Heaven or hell? (Same bonus question.) How do you see this as playing out?
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21-09-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
[Image: heaven-is-hotter-than-hell.jpg]

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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21-09-2014, 10:47 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(20-09-2014 11:12 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  Hell is definitely real...

Uh... I hope you realize that you're quoting from an anthology of dubious stories that had a Talking Snake™ and magic trees and a magic boat full of animals in the very first section.

If you want to debase your intellect and your humanity by accepting any old crap that your pastor teaches you, that's your prerogative; however, I think you'd be better off if you set your standard for evidence a few notches higher.
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21-09-2014, 11:50 PM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 09:17 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 08:50 PM)hell-lover Wrote:  God decides who gets into heaven - period. If you don't like it take it up with the big guy. I for one will not question God's will. Smile
What if there really is not God and "God" is actually the one you normally think of as "Satan" pretending to be all good in order to take total advantage of the human race... how would you know the difference if you aren't willing to question? Consider Also, not questioning is exactly how so many Nazi's followed Hitler in carrying out his evil. Dodgy

Reading the Bible, God definitely sounds like the bad guy, and Satan sounds like the good guy, but since he didn't win the war, God's propaganda makes him out to be the bad guy. This would really make for a fantastic movie.
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22-09-2014, 12:08 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 05:20 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 03:58 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'll just leave this here for the entertainment of others:




Thanks for sharing. Very good video.

My pleasure; one of my favourites, actually.

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22-09-2014, 12:09 AM
RE: Why I LOVE hell.
(21-09-2014 11:50 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 09:17 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What if there really is not God and "God" is actually the one you normally think of as "Satan" pretending to be all good in order to take total advantage of the human race... how would you know the difference if you aren't willing to question? Consider Also, not questioning is exactly how so many Nazi's followed Hitler in carrying out his evil. Dodgy

Reading the Bible, God definitely sounds like the bad guy, and Satan sounds like the good guy, but since he didn't win the war, God's propaganda makes him out to be the bad guy. This would really make for a fantastic movie.

That WOULD be a great movie.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
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