Why I am a vegetarian....
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15-02-2013, 06:19 AM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2013 09:59 AM by Zat.)
Why I am a vegetarian....
StorMFront asked me: "Why be a vegan...your skeptical enough to be an atheist but your not skeptic enough to know we are omnivores?".

I offered to discuss it in a separate thread, but he declined.

After thinking about it some more, I decided to start another thread, explaining my reasons. Maybe there are others struggling with this issue and this might be some help for them.

We weren't always vegetarians. I was eating meat till my mid thirties and I have to admit, I was a real ‘carnivore’. I just loved meat, in any form, shape -- I loved the taste, the texture, even the smell of our favorite Hungarian Goulash and "paprikas porkolt".

Then I learned about the unspeakable cruelty to animals in the chicken factories, factory farms, abattoirs, food processing plants, fishing industry, etc.

See link to PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) at: http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...fault.aspx

That was just before we moved from Toronto out to our 50 acres in the country, so I suggested to my wife that we raise our own animals for food, in decent, free-ranging environment, without the cruelty associated with commercial meat products.

I asked: "Where do I build the chicken coup?"
She said: "No chicken coup -- I won't eat any living thing I know personally".
I said: "This is hypocrisy -- you let others do your dirty work for you?"
She said: "You are right"
I said: "Then we should not eat meat".
She said: "Fine".
I said: "Fine".

That day we stopped eating meat.

We are not Vegans, we eat milk products and eggs. Our rule is simple: we don't eat anything that visibly objects to being eaten.

This is not a religious (god forbid!) attitude -- it is only an ethical decision, combined with our soft-hearted love of animals, coupled with some logic for the sake of consistency and integrity.

After that day we discovered vegetarian cook books and the countless recipes that are enjoyable, nutritious, even exciting and adventurous. We eat a lot more interestingly than we used to when we were carnivores.

I know that we evolved as omnivores (I am not an idiot as some of the challenges implied).

Being omnivores implies a choice -- a choice that true carnivores like lions and wolves don't have.

We do.

One of the most frequently heard arguments against vegetarianism is "It is the natural thing to eat meat!".

We find that argument funny: Our entire history, as a human species, was spent fighting against natural things. Like dying of an infection, living in caves, freezing on cold nights, having to roam with the prey animals, hunting and gathering as we used to before agriculture was invented.

We evolved, with our science and technology, creating as unnatural an environment in our big cities as it gets.

There is room for further evolution.

Our science and technology makes it possible today to synthesize meat, in taste almost undistinguishable from what is gained from torturing and killing animals. It could be done on an industrial scale a lot cheaper than what producing meat costs today, if all the costs are considered.

And it would end the unspeakable cruelty we all participate in, as long as we eat meat produced by the meat industry.

Even now you can buy meat-tasting products (bacon, salami, chicken, etc) made from soy beans and I eat a lot of those because I like the taste.

So, there is room for evolving to our full potential as a scientific, technological civilization that does not need the barbaric, inefficient, wasteful survival skills of our primitive past.

Enf of rant.
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15-02-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
(15-02-2013 06:19 AM)Zat Wrote:  StorMFront asked me: "Why be a vegan...your skeptical enough to be an atheist but your not skeptic enough to know we are omnivores?".

I offered to discuss it in a separate thread, but he declined.

After thinking about it some more, I decided to start another thread, explaining my reasons. Maybe there are others struggling with this issue and this might be some help for them.

We weren't always vegetarians. I was eating meat till my mid thirties and I have to admit, I was a real ‘carnivore’. I just loved meat, in any form, shape -- I loved the taste, the texture, even the smell of our favorite Hungarian Goulash and "paprikas porkolt".

Then I learned about the unspeakable cruelty to animals in the chicken factories, factory farms, abattoirs, food processing plants, fishing industry, etc.

See link to PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) at: http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...fault.aspx

That was just before we moved from Toronto out to our 50 acres in the country, so I suggested to my wife that we raise our own animals for food, in decent, free-ranging environment, without the cruelty associated with commercial meat products.

I asked: "Where do I build the chicken coup?"
She said: "No chicken coup -- I won't eat any living thing I know personally".
I said: "This is hypocrisy -- you let others do your dirty work for you?"
She said: "You are right"
I said: "Then we should not eat meat".
She said: "Fine".
I said: "Fine".

That day we stopped eating meat.

We are not Vegans, we eat milk products and eggs. Our rule is simple: we don't eat anything that visibly objects to being eaten.

This is not a religious (god forbid!) attitude -- it is only an ethical decision, combined with our soft-hearted love of animals, coupled with some logic for the sake of consistency and integrity.

After that day we discovered vegetarian cook books and the countless recipes that are enjoyable, nutritious, even exciting and adventurous. We eat a lot more interestingly than we used to when we were carnivores.

I know that we evolved as omnivores (I am not an idiot as some of the challenges implied).

Being omnivores, as Peterkin pointed out, implies a choice -- a choice that true carnivores like lions and wolves don't have.

We do.

One of the most frequently heard arguments against vegetarianism is "It is the natural thing to eat meat!".

We find that argument funny: Our entire history, as a human species, was spent fighting against natural things. Like dying of an infection, living in caves, freezing on cold nights, having to roam with the prey animals, hunting and gathering as we used to before agriculture was invented.

We evolved, with our science and technology, creating as unnatural an environment in our big cities as it gets.

There is room for further evolution.

Our science and technology makes it possible today to synthesize meat, in taste almost undistinguishable from what is gained from torturing and killing animals. It could be done on an industrial scale a lot cheaper than what producing meat costs today, if all the costs are considered.

And it would end the unspeakable cruelty we all participate in, as long as we eat meat produced by the meat industry.

Even now you can buy meat-tasting products (bacon, salami, chicken, etc) made from soy beans and I eat a lot of those because I like the taste.

So, there is room for evolving to our full potential as a scientific, technological civilization that does not need the barbaric, inefficient, wasteful survival skills of our primitive past.

Enf of rant.


That is very well stated. Thank you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-02-2013, 06:46 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
This might come as a surprise given my warmongering disposition and the stances I typically take (unless you have come across me on vegetarian forums Tongue), but I agree with many of your points and have in fact been a vegetarian for about 4 years. I always maintain that, as a soldier, there is always the chance that I will end up in a situation where being vegetarian is temporarily not an option, and in such a situation I'll do whatever I have to do (whether it's eating meat or insects or whatever), but so far I haven't been confronted with this situation.

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"Sometimes I wrestle with my demons. Sometimes we just snuggle."
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15-02-2013, 07:19 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
I only eat yaks and drink yak blood with every meal.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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15-02-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
I disagree with both your argument and with the fact that you "enfef" you rant, but you are free to eat whatever the fuck you want. As long as you do not attempt to claim moral superiority, we have absolutely no problem.

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15-02-2013, 08:57 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
(15-02-2013 07:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I only eat yaks and drink yak blood with every meal.

Haven't tried yak blood, but I was quite fond of duck blood soup while living in Nanjing, and the goat blood soup I had while touring Mongolia wasn't bad either. Before I was vegetarian, naturally Smile

"Never support a law that you are not willing to kill to enforce." Stephen L. Carter

"Sometimes I wrestle with my demons. Sometimes we just snuggle."
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15-02-2013, 09:04 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
(15-02-2013 08:49 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I disagree with both your argument and with the fact that you "enfef" you rant, but you are free to eat whatever the fuck you want. As long as you do not attempt to claim moral superiority, we have absolutely no problem.

I personally don't see vegetarianism as being superior. Just one of many arbitrary choices we make based off of our perception of our experiences. If someone asks me my reasons I'll do my best to tell them, and if they think it makes sense and decide to change, great. But you're never gonna see me telling others how to live. There is no right or wrong way, because that would imply that values and perceptions of the nature of the world are universally accepted which, of course, they aren't.

If the watershed predictions turn out to be founded, however, in the coming years many people may find themselves becoming predominantly vegetarian whether they want to or not.

"Never support a law that you are not willing to kill to enforce." Stephen L. Carter

"Sometimes I wrestle with my demons. Sometimes we just snuggle."
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15-02-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
I say to each his own. I will continue to be a carnivore. Big Grin
I thank you for not being obnoxious about it.
Now Peta, they are obnoxious. They go to far and show nothing but the bad.
I agree with them on some things like being a good pet owner and stuff like that.
But they are extremists and I don't like extremists of any kind.

Just please explain the whole meatless meat thing. I don't get it.
If you don't want to eat meat they why would you want to eat
something that tastes like meat. Huh

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15-02-2013, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2013 09:23 AM by Zat.)
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
(15-02-2013 09:11 AM)smidgen Wrote:  If you don't want to eat meat they why would you want to eat something that tastes like meat. Huh
Why not? Huh

PS. If you read the OP carefully, you will see that I always enjoyed the taste of meat -- it is the associated cruelty that I did not enjoy.

If you can have the taste, without the cruelty, I am all for it.

And no, I don't go around telling people how to live. I made a personal decision, for personal reasons, and those reasons are good enough for me.

Other people have other personal reasons and they have to be good enough for them. Smile
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15-02-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: Why I am a vegetarian....
(15-02-2013 09:14 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(15-02-2013 09:11 AM)smidgen Wrote:  If you don't want to eat meat they why would you want to eat something that tastes like meat. Huh
Why not? Huh
ah, come on. You don't have a serious answer. I wasn't asking to be a smart ass. I'm just curious.

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