Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
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18-11-2010, 05:17 AM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Quote:He's offered a million dollars for many years for anyone who can prove to him that a supernatural or physic phenomenon exists.
The rules have changed: you have to have some publicity to be accepted to take the challenge, but that's not a problem, I'm sure that there are organizations with similar challenges in the US too, but with smaller prizes. But if you can win a smaller challenge (prove something paranormal), I'm pretty sure you'll get enough publicity (enough at least, if you don't become the most famous person on earth!) to take the challenge.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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18-11-2010, 02:35 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
@ Unbeliever: I see from your response there that you're not understanding what I say at all. I see absolutely no point in continuing with the misunderstanding. From the evidence so far it looks like it can only get worse. So I respectfully close all conversations with yourself immediately.

Peace & respect.
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18-11-2010, 03:44 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(18-11-2010 02:35 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  @ Unbeliever: I see from your response there that you're not understanding what I say at all. I see absolutely no point in continuing with the misunderstanding. From the evidence so far it looks like it can only get worse. So I respectfully close all conversations with yourself immediately.

Peace & respect.

Whatever. I've pretty much given up on you at this point as well.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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18-11-2010, 04:00 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Kudos and respect then UB Wink
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20-03-2011, 08:46 AM
 
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
I have a question. My aunt is a very very passionate theist, obsessed with god and that shit actually, and when I told everyone I'm an atheist/antitheist she said it is a phase in my teenage discovering (not in those words but you get the point). Naturally, I love my aunt so I didn't want to argue. Thes she continued, she asked me why do I celebrate christmas and easter if I don't believe in the things they represent. Basically, I celebrate those days because of the presents and 'cause it's a tradition and a big thing in my family. So, my question is, is that okey? To celebrate christmas and easter even though I'm don't believe in all that shit?
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20-03-2011, 09:25 AM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Hey, Blue Red.

It's a tough call. To avoid hypocrisy, Atheists should avoid observing holy days, especially if you're anti-Theist (to do otherwise is to admit that religion is not devoid of value). Then again, many holy days have evolved into quasi-secular days of rest and togetherness where families have a chance to connect; no different than Thanksgiving. Then again, if your family is observing these days for religious reasons, perhaps you're disrespecting them by selfishly taking the personal benefit from those holy days and discarding what is important for them to share. Then again, maybe they just want you there even if you don't believe because you're a part of the family and loved. Then again, maybe they don't want you there if you're only partially there.

Theists get accused of cherry picking a lot, but Atheists who eschew religion but partake of and benefit from it's rituals are also cherry picking.

As far as the teenage discovery, it's natural for teenagers to rebel in their attempts to forge their own identity, so it's not unheard of for them to rebel against religion. So she's probably hoping that's the case. If she's a passionate Theist, she probably thinkgs that it's in your best interests to return to the fold. It comes from love. The question is, if it's not a phase, if you never return to the fold, how will your relationship be affected?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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20-03-2011, 12:29 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(01-10-2010 12:20 PM)Ghost Wrote:  The thing that always stuck with me is the idea that the cat is BOTH alive and dead until it is observed. For me, the existence of God is in a similar box. Until we look inside, God both exists and doesn’t exist. The difference is that we have no way of looking into the box. While proving whether or not the cat is alive or dead is easily determined by observation (and in fact, determined by observation), in the case of God, that observation, the thing that makes it one or the other, is robbed from us because there is no way to prove of disprove the existence of God. So God both exists and does not exist eternally. While Pandora’s box is one we can never close, God’s box is a box we can never open.

Fail on so many levels. If you believe that god exists and doesn't exist, even as far as we know, you are (presumably an agnostic) atheist and theist simultaneously, which breaks the laws of logic. And if we have no way of looking in the box, ie god is unfalsifiable, then we shouldn't believe in its existence.

(01-10-2010 12:20 PM)Ghost Wrote:  In my time on this site, many people have been adamant that an Atheist is simply a non-Theist. So by that definition, anyone that is not a Theist is an Atheist. This definition creates a rigid dichotomy within which, no further definition is possible. Therefore an Agnostic, who by definition is not a Theist, is an Atheist. But I say that this is a meaningless distinction. We do not classify things by what they are not but by what things are.

I agree with the (as pz myers calls it) dictionary definition of atheist. It is so much more helpful in characterising something or one.
Do you believe in god? Yes. Do you know he exists to a degree of certainty? Yes. You're a gnostic theist. Do you believe in god? No. Do you know god doesn't exist? No. You're an agostic atheist.
You seem to think by this definition atheist and agnostic are exactly the same, but it isn't. And if you are against the definition of atheist being simply off the field of belief, so to speak, then why do you argue that agnosticism should be considered off the field?

(01-10-2010 12:20 PM)Ghost Wrote:  One could say that the world is divided into sexually reproducing species and asexually reproducing species simply because theses are the only two processes in which organisms reproduce. But one would be wrong.

One wouldn't be wrong to say that. One would be wrong to say that there is only male and female, not a/sexually reproducing species.

(01-10-2010 12:20 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Ciliates are eukaryotic protozoans that produce BOTH sexually and asexually.

Notice anything? They're still producing through two ways, there aren't any new means of reproducing, still the same old two.
And you can say that a species reproduces both ways, but you can't believe that god exists and believe that he doesn't exist simultaneously.
You can say that due to your ignorance on the issue, you do not believe that said god exists - which is my position.

(01-10-2010 12:20 PM)Ghost Wrote:  One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Forget the deny part, theres my definiton exactly.

Basically, if you want to define atheists as people who deny the existence of gods, then I am not an atheist according to your definition. According to mine, I am. We are simply arguing semantics.

EDIT: I couldn't be bothered reading ~16 pages of comments, so sorry if I am duplicating someone elses comment, or starting the same argument over again.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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20-03-2011, 04:15 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Hey, daemonowner.

Quote:Fail on so many levels.

Truly you have dizzying intellect.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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20-03-2011, 04:25 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
And he also has immunity to iocane powder.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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20-03-2011, 05:15 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Inconceivable!

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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