Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
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09-11-2010, 05:31 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Unbeliever Wrote:So that's a "yes", then?
Religion makes no such claim Unbeliever. So yes, it doesn't care.
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09-11-2010, 05:35 PM
 
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
Unbeliever Wrote:So that's a "yes", then?


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09-11-2010, 07:08 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(09-11-2010 05:31 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  
Unbeliever Wrote:So that's a "yes", then?
Religion makes no such claim Unbeliever.

I'm pretty sure it does. The vast majority of religions claim that their beliefs are true.

Quote:So yes, it doesn't care.

All righty then. I think your view of religion may be a little skewed.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-11-2010, 07:22 AM
 
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(09-11-2010 04:30 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I misspoke. You're not being a dick after all. Turns out you're being an outright asshole. My comment was directed at the fact that you seem to enjoy "picking on" Ghost, for lack of a better term. (Not that I feel he needs defending) Disagree with him as much as you like, but what are you accomplishing by being obnoxious?
I get your whole, "you made a random insult towards me, so it's ok if I do it back" thing, but my comment wasn't random. Intentionally being obnoxious to someone is acting like a dick. That's exactly what you are doing. I guess it threw me, since I thought you were bigger than that. Saying I beat my wife (even if it was simply a joke in extremely poor taste) elevates you to asshole status in my book.

Grow up.

"Picking" on ghost? You must surely be joking! I can think of several occasions on this forum where I've made statements to the effect that I find his comments stimulating and interesting, despite my disagreements with him. The fact that you, as one of the senior honchos here, have concluded I'm being "obnoxious" to him (pobrecito!) suggests to me that I have no interest in being involved with this forum any more. I'm outta here ...
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10-11-2010, 08:34 AM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
I've never been called a "Honcho" before. Weird.
I am not anything different than a member here, just like you. With the one acception that I have admin access to help keep the forum cleaned up, and as free as possible from bots. I in no way "represent" TTA.

With that out of the way.....I have to ask: If I beat my wife, but also on several occasions comment on what a good wife she is, does it negate the fact that I beat her? It's been clear on more than one occasion that you attempt to antagonize Ghost, and are condescending to him. Simply put, you act like a dick towards him. It never turns into a big thing because he never gives in and engages you. Sorry if my saying something about it bothers you, but the fact is, if I were Ghost, I'd probably not bother posting here. I don't want to see that happen, since I, like you, find him interesting.
The truth is, if I wasn't interested in reading what you have to say, I would have basically said nothing, aside from "why don't you go elsewhere?" I didn't say that because I don't want to see it happen. I won't, however, keep my mouth shut when I see someone being obnoxious. ESPECIALLY if I don't think that person is truly an obnoxious person.

That's my opinion, and I have as much right to it as any other member of this forum. It's as valid as yours, and equally as valid as the newest member on here.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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10-11-2010, 12:41 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(09-11-2010 07:08 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-11-2010 05:31 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  
Unbeliever Wrote:So that's a "yes", then?
Religion makes no such claim Unbeliever.

I'm pretty sure it does. The vast majority of religions claim that their beliefs are true.
Religious people claim by faith that their personal beliefs are true to them... they claim to believe in God and not that God exists. There's a subtle but very important distinction, a point also made by ghost/ Matt recently. It's very different to making a positive claim of knowledge, as you seem to be suggesting (apologies if this is incorrect).

(09-11-2010 07:08 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
Quote:So yes, it doesn't care.
All righty then. I think your view of religion may be a little skewed.
I think you're addressing a different subject.
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10-11-2010, 12:49 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(10-11-2010 12:41 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  Religious people claim by faith that their personal beliefs are true to them... they claim to believe in God and not that God exists. There's a subtle but very important distinction, a point also made by ghost/ Matt recently. It's very different to making a positive claim of knowledge, as you seem to be suggesting (apologies if this is incorrect).

Well, it is incorrect. How many religious people have you spoken to? They very definitely believe that God exists.

Quote:I think you're addressing a different subject.

No, I wasn't. I was commenting on how you appear to be mistaken on what, exactly, it is that religious people believe.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-11-2010, 03:00 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
I speak to very many religious people Unbeliever. I regularly go to an annual national cross denominational festival of about 30,000 people and know that those I speak to share my understanding. So do the people I meet online that share my Christian faith. I've never met one that disagrees.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say with knowledge vs belief? Ghost has explained it here already; I'm saying nothing new. You must be combining the two and we are at crossed purposes I think.
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10-11-2010, 03:18 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
(10-11-2010 03:00 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  I speak to very many religious people Unbeliever. I regularly go to an annual national cross denominational festival of about 30,000 people and know that those I speak to share my understanding. So do the people I meet online that share my Christian faith. I've never met one that disagrees.

So you have never met a Christian who claims to know that God exists? You may want to spend a little time looking around, then; it's a fairly common claim. CARM.org, for example, is filled with them.

Quote:Do you understand what I'm trying to say with knowledge vs belief?

Yes.

Quote:Ghost has explained it here already; I'm saying nothing new. You must be combining the two and we are at crossed purposes I think.

I'm not sure how.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-11-2010, 06:24 PM
RE: Why I am neither a Theist nor an Atheist
No I've never met such a Christian Unbeliever. Knowledge would make faith pointless and therefore contradict Christianity, which places faith at its core. You can't have faith if you 'know'.

I don't deny that there are people saying illogical things. It's extremely simple to refute and therefore dismiss such logic. Christianity isn't affected by such misinterpretation, in the same way that atheism isn't affected by people making illogical claims of it.
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