Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
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08-10-2013, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 09:45 AM by Revenant77x.)
Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
You ask me 2 weeks ago, "hey muffs, what's your opinion on abortion?" and I would inform you that I am very much firmly on the pro-choice side of the fence.
I was very much of the opinion of "womens body, womens choice" and didn't care for the pro-lifers style of arguments "it's wrong to kill" "human-beings are sacred" blah blah life is sacred bullshit. Son, there are over 7 billion of us on this planet, millions die all the time because of preventable diseases and hunger. Many more because of poor global wealth distribution (people suffer while others earn more than small countries). We have wars ALL the fucking time... Jesus Christ can't the globe go one fucking year without a god damn war?????
There's absolutely nothing fucking "sacred" about humans. In a nutshell we're greedy parasitic lice.

So anyway, I was at my sisters the other day and it's something her annoying house mate said to me. And I didn't really have an answer to it. And the more I thought about it, the deeper I thought about it the more it made complete perfect sense.
She said to me "I don't see why a women can't carry a baby to term".
Now on the surface it looks stupid. But is it..

Now, I just want to make it clear, I'm still very much for abortion in the case of rape and if having the baby will medically effect the mother (besides being pregnant..) in a serious way, ie: death.

The sentence got me thinking. With gay marriage becoming more and more accepted (and legal), infertile couples, or just couples looking to adopt there must be demand out there. Add to that single parent mothers are considered normal (where as back in the day there would be huge pressure on her to give up the baby), welfare checks are often increased when you pop a couple kids out, contraception is easily available etc..
It got me thinking that there is no reason for a women to NOT carry that baby to term when there are loving couples out there looking for babies.

The pro-choice argument often revolves around ruining the mothers life. ie: some 16 year old girl now becoming a mother.
But with adoption this isn't the case. She can still attend school (she may need to take a couple weeks off once she has the baby though I suspect). She can give the baby to a loving couple that will take it and she can than still carry on with school, maybe collage and have children at a later date when she is more ready to take on that responsibility.

The way I'm now looking at it, and what has made me shift camp, is to look at it like a consequence. We're all bound by the law. If we break the law, there are consequences. If I drink 1 too many there's a consequence the next morning. If I kill a man the consequence is I go to jail. Action and re-action.
And if you have unprotected sex the simple truth is that you can get pregnant.
Even protected sex.
If you actively decide to engage in sex then you run the risk of getting pregnant.
It's that fucking simple.
Sex education is everywhere, there are campaigns everywhere regarding "use a condom" and other safe sex things. Condoms are readily available. There's simply no excuse any more.
And so I no longer support the pro-choice arguments. It can simply not be okay for us to simply say "oh you made a bad choice, it's okay you can have a little procedure and carry on with your life". NO, that's not good enough. We should be saying, you made a mistake, you live with the consequences. Just like if that same 16 year old was to kill someone, hell even manslaughter, there would be serious consequences.

Besides rape and health reasons, there should be any reason a women can't bring that fetus/baby to term.
If I kill someone I don't get to simply opt out of jail say to the judge "nah 20 years in jail doesn't sound good to me, I'm just gonna go home instead". There are consequences. Just as pregnancy should be a potential consequence of having sex, you shouldn't have that option to simply "opt out". Not in todays society anyway.

Fuck me that was long winded.

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08-10-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
why does anyone have the right to force a women to carry a baby in her womb for 9 months?

It's not about the consequences of having the baby, is about forcing somebody to do something with her body.

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08-10-2013, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 01:58 PM by Ohio Sky.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
I can understand and sympathize with everything you said. For a long time, I was pro-life because I felt like if you're pregnant, you already made a choice. That was your chance. Now live with it. Birth control is out there for a reason.

The thing is, this is extremely polarized thinking. You can't lump everyone into two simple categories of "raped/in danger" and "have the fucking baby." There are so, so many gray areas here that demand recognition. I still believe responsibility should be promoted first and foremost, but sometimes that's just not enough. Birth control isn't 100% reliable, and comes with it's own set of health risks and side affects that some women simply can't handle.

What it comes down to, for me, is the simple risks vs. benefits. How does abortion really harm anyone? Obviously, there are many answers to this question, but for me, I believe that if the procedure is performed as early as possible and the mother isn't shamed for her decision, the real consequences are minimal. It's never a happy, feel-good decision, but it's better than the alternative.

Your idea that all, or even most, children given up for adoption are actually adopted out is erroneous. The fact is, it's extremely expensive to adopt. Most couples just can't do it. There are thousands of children in my state alone who are being bounced around in foster homes and who will never have a stable family. These children are far more likely to end up arrested in early adulthood, develop drug addictions, have unwanted pregnancies of their own, and end up in the system in one way or another for a good chunk of their life. Very recently, I read an article about dozens of children just coming up missing from one state in a single year, who are believed to be be the victims of human trafficking. I find the prospect of worrying every day if the child you gave up is living a happy life far scarier than the emotional repercussions of abortion. Aside from the welfare of the child, I'm sure you're familiar with the effects of overpopulation. They're real and scary, and I don't want to contribute to them.

I had my first child when I was 18. I love her and wouldn't trade her for anything, but it's been an incredible struggle. I have health issues that aren't life threatening, but make pregnancy so difficult for me that it was impossible for me to hold a job while pregnant. I couldn't work for 7 months. After I had her, I had no choice but to pick up two jobs while continuing college full time. It's been that way the entire 9 years since. Two years ago, I met my fiancé, who is more financially stable than my daughter's dad or the few guys I dater after we separated. I was finally able to spend more time with her. We opened a college account for her. We enrolled her in the extracurricular activities she always wanted to be involved in that I never had the money for. My fiancé had had a vasectomy 5 years before we met, and I was still taking birth control when I discovered I was pregnant about a year and a half ago. It was absolutely not because of poor planning. We took every possible precaution. Neither of us want more children, and carrying this pregnancy would have forced me to quit my job (which is an apprenticeship position- taking 9+ months off would have been the end of my career). We chose to terminate, and I've never regretted it. Everything I've struggled to provide for my daughter would have been thrown out the window if we had another child, even if I chose to give it up, which I don't think I could ever do. There are multiple websites out there dedicated to women sharing positive stories after abortion. I found strength and a whole lot of understanding from reading them. Perhaps you should look around and try to understand more of the gray areas.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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08-10-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
And do you think a woman can give a baby she carried up for adoption like you throw an empty carton away?

And there is a huge shortage of adoptive parents. Orphanages still exist and they are full of lonely kids.

Humans are crawling all over this planet multiplying like rats. We really don't need to encourage it...

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08-10-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(08-10-2013 01:47 PM)nach_in Wrote:  why does anyone have the right to force a women to carry a baby in her womb for 9 months?

It's not about the consequences of having the baby, is about forcing somebody to do something with her body.

That's a stupid argument.
We force people to do things all the time.
Murder someone? Off to jail with you. Hell, in some places around the world do something bad enough and they'll kill ya. They sterilize repeat sex offenders. Police can legally take blood samples from people in cases such as a car accident.
Everything from jail to blood samples, all things that the state can legally restrict/take on your body.

AND as I said, it is ultimately the women's choice. If she has sex than a potential consequence of that is she can get pregnant. Nobody forced her to get pregnant, and in the case of rape I 100% support abortion.

I use to have the same opinion you have, I would say the same as you just did.
The key factor is recognizing that sex is a choice. Just like drinking is a choice.
Actually speaking of drinking, we inflict punishment on those under the influence of alcohol. Why? Because we recognize alcohol as a choice that a person makes and so we uphold them to the consequences of that action if not done responsibly.

What I'm trying to say is, why do we hold sex in a completely different light to alcohol, murder, streaking across a football game?
We accept that if you do things than there are consequences to those actions.
YET us (or now you) pro-choice people hold sex to a completely different degree of expectations. Suddenly it's "we have no right to say that there are consequences to those actions", suddenly it's completely okay to make absolutely stupid decisions such as have unprotected sex and there be no consequences.

What I'm trying to say is, why do we hold sex in a completely different light to pretty much everything else..?
It's a choice just like everything else. Just like alcohol is a choice. Just like taking drugs is a choice. Letting some dude shove his unprotected dick into your vagina is a choice.
As such I'm saying, just like murder, just like alcohol related offense, just like everything else in life, there should be consequences.

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08-10-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
An overview of how many children wait for stable homes:

http://www.ccainstitute.org/why-we-do-it...stics.html

A look into how this relates to child sex trafficking:

http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/08/13...overnment/
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/fbi-re...ng-victims

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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08-10-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
A clump of human cells, with no neural tube, is not a "baby". It's a "potential" baby.
So are unfertilized human gametes.
You're gonna have to get a LOT more specific.
Good luck with that.

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08-10-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Two simple objections.

Birth control is not 100% effective.

Pregnancy and childbirth are risky to a woman.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(08-10-2013 02:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What I'm trying to say is, why do we hold sex in a completely different light to pretty much everything else..?
It's a choice just like everything else. Just like alcohol is a choice. Just like taking drugs is a choice. Letting some dude shove his unprotected dick into your vagina is a choice.
As such I'm saying, just like murder, just like alcohol related offense, just like everything else in life, there should be consequences.

Abortion is hardly escaping the consequences. Even when that's the decision that's made, it's a difficult and expensive one for the mother, while having little impact on anyone else. Carrying an unwanted pregnancy, on the other hand, is a burden to the mother temporarily, but impacts society and the child for the remainder of his/her life. In my eyes, the parents and only the parents pay the price. When an unwanted pregnancy is carried to term, the child pays the price.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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08-10-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
You're dumb. Tongue

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