Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
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10-10-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:26 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:You can't really pull the valuing lives card when you're for abortions.
You're valuing something like a job over a human life.
Yes, you can. They are talking about valuing human people, not cells in a uterus. As you mentioned, most abortions take place in the first several weeks. While it's technically alive, so is a sperm. Why do you think a fertilized egg that hasn't even differentiated itself into different types of cells is more important than a woman with friends, loved ones, and contributes to society? That's why I have no problem with saying her life matters a lot more than a potential person.

You're valuing a clump of cells over a human woman's life and happiness.

If your reason for the abortion is because you will have to quit your job than you ARE valuing your job over a human life because without that job you would otherwise bring a human life into the world.
You're saying, rather than have a baby I will have a job.
That's valuing your job above a human life.
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10-10-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:31 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 01:26 PM)amyb Wrote:  Yes, you can. They are talking about valuing human people, not cells in a uterus. As you mentioned, most abortions take place in the first several weeks. While it's technically alive, so is a sperm. Why do you think a fertilized egg that hasn't even differentiated itself into different types of cells is more important than a woman with friends, loved ones, and contributes to society? That's why I have no problem with saying her life matters a lot more than a potential person.

You're valuing a clump of cells over a human woman's life and happiness.

If your reason for the abortion is because you will have to quit your job than you ARE valuing your job over a human life because without that job you would otherwise bring a human life into the world.
You're saying, rather than have a baby I will have a job.
That's valuing your job above a human life.

And just what am I supposed to do with a baby and no job? Babies and kids are expensive as heck! Do your research on that one.

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10-10-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:31 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 01:26 PM)amyb Wrote:  Yes, you can. They are talking about valuing human people, not cells in a uterus. As you mentioned, most abortions take place in the first several weeks. While it's technically alive, so is a sperm. Why do you think a fertilized egg that hasn't even differentiated itself into different types of cells is more important than a woman with friends, loved ones, and contributes to society? That's why I have no problem with saying her life matters a lot more than a potential person.

You're valuing a clump of cells over a human woman's life and happiness.

If your reason for the abortion is because you will have to quit your job than you ARE valuing your job over a human life because without that job you would otherwise bring a human life into the world.
You're saying, rather than have a baby I will have a job.
That's valuing your job above a human life.

Just like how every time you use birth control, rely on electricity, eat meat, entertain yourself, or drive a car, you are valuing your own pleasure above human lives.

OH, WAIT. That's absurdly reductive.

(and also human life is not an apt phrase to describe a blastocyst, which is a presupposition you have relied on throughout)

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10-10-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If its complicated, then what makes you think that it is your decision to make on behalf of others?
What makes you think that a blanket rule (law) is better than careful consideration of each individual case made by those who are impacted the most?
What makes you think that politicians make better decisions than parents?

Why do you want to give your government so much power over each adult?

Because abortion has been legal and the statistic leave me with little faith in the masses using it responsibly. Because the statistics show that the overwhelming reasons for abortion is all to do with the mothers ability to care for that baby after it's born.
I think that is a valid reason.
Quote: Because adoption is better than abortion.
Why?
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10-10-2013, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2013 02:11 PM by amyb.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  (and also human life is not an apt phrase to describe a blastocyst, which is a presupposition you have relied on throughout)

This. Personally, I see a huge difference between a grown-ass woman and a blastocyst, and that's why I place a lot more value on the woman. I also think her happiness, job, future, and education are more important than the blastocyst.

There is not a shortage of babies. If someone wants one later, they can make another (or adopt). I fail to see why the "life" of the blastocyst even matters. It's not like pregnancy is some rare occurrence.
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10-10-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:31 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 01:26 PM)amyb Wrote:  Yes, you can. They are talking about valuing human people, not cells in a uterus. As you mentioned, most abortions take place in the first several weeks. While it's technically alive, so is a sperm. Why do you think a fertilized egg that hasn't even differentiated itself into different types of cells is more important than a woman with friends, loved ones, and contributes to society? That's why I have no problem with saying her life matters a lot more than a potential person.

You're valuing a clump of cells over a human woman's life and happiness.

If your reason for the abortion is because you will have to quit your job than you ARE valuing your job over a human life because without that job you would otherwise bring a human life into the world.
You're saying, rather than have a baby I will have a job.
That's valuing your job above a human life.

It's not a human life.

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10-10-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Won't be long til we figure out how to successfully grow a baby in a male subject. Then Muffsy and friends can volunteer and carry as many aborted babies as they like.

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10-10-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:That's valuing your job above a human life.

What business is it of yours?

Are you going to support it? Change its diapers? Feed it? Educate it? Get up at 2 in the morning with it?

Or are you just a fucking busybody who thinks he has the right to dictate how other people live?

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10-10-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 02:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  Won't be long til we figure out how to successfully grow a baby in a male subject. Then Muffsy and friends can volunteer and carry as many aborted babies as they like.

They won't be aborted - they'll be transferred. Consider I kind of like that idea.

If a woman decides to abort a pregnancy but the partner who donated the sperm wants this future baby, the consequence of their unprotected sex will be transferred from the female to the male.

FANTASTIC! Thumbsup

There you go Muffy; now men will have a turn at shitting out a bowling ball the glories of the biological bonding known as carrying to term and giving birth. Shy

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10-10-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-10-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If its complicated, then what makes you think that it is your decision to make on behalf of others?
What makes you think that a blanket rule (law) is better than careful consideration of each individual case made by those who are impacted the most?
What makes you think that politicians make better decisions than parents?

Why do you want to give your government so much power over each adult?

Because abortion has been legal and the statistic leave me with little faith in the masses using it responsibly.
So you value your own judgment more than you do the judgement of those people who are trying to live their own lives and make their own decisions.
There is a high degree of arrogance here.
Why do you deem it your responsibility to stop others making what you deem to be the wrong choice? Why does your opinion overrule theirs?
With regards to government controlling people's lives, where do you draw the line? When are people to be allowed to make their own life decisions?
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because the statistics show that the overwhelming reasons for abortion is all to do with the mothers ability to care for that baby after it's born.
Why do mothers have to justify to earmuffs the reason for them having an abortion? What makes their choice your business? Why should you be in the power seat rather than me?
If I was the ruler then I would say, "Let the mothers decide for themselves"
So why should your opinion overrule mine?
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because adoption is better than abortion.
Do people always have to make the best decision (best with regards to what earmuffs deems as the best)? So if people are making sub-optimal decisions, then should the government interfer and make people's decisions for them?
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because we've become to desensitized to life that we value things like our job more than we do human life.
So what? Who is it that is to decide what people ought to value? Why do you want to control people so much? Why not let them make their own decisions?
What do you think the purpose of government is? The purpose of law?
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because the fathers are getting shafted.
Yes, men don't have control over a woman's body. They can't force her to have an abortion and they can't force her not to. That would be extremely violent and no doubt would incur the wrath of her family and friends and even some objective bystanders (when they see a man using force on a pregnant woman)
(10-10-2013 01:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because all the counter points to my opinion have been in regards to very small percentages of all cases.
This isn't true. None of my own counter points have addressed any small percentage scenarios. My counterpoint is that the decision does not need government intervention, that society goes on peacefully irregardless of whether a mother chooses abortion or not.
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