Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-10-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 04:25 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  I seem to have lost the ability to post anything and actually have it show up. Sad

Showed up this time...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 04:49 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 04:21 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  Not sure what's happening with my posts, they're not appearing. Sorry of this shows up twice.

(10-10-2013 12:24 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Well show me the statistics and I'll comment on it.
But again, I understand that the adoption service (and foster care as an extension of that) isn't perfect. But I still hold that the solution to that problem is improving the adoption service, not legalizing abortion.

Which are factors that need to be taken into account at the point of sex.
Job is one of the many factors. IMO, job is =/= to human life. It is sacrificing a human life, not a fetus, if the reason for your abortion is so you can keep your job.
This is what I mean by I don't think the reasons are good enough any more.
Potential job loss is one of the consequences you need to take into account.

Statistics on what? These children are missing. By definition, they can't be accounted for. How does one gather statistics on what happened to people who can't be found? I did link to several articles already covering cases of missing children and human trafficking.

How does one take into account what is going to happen during their pregnancy when they may have no idea what will happen during pregnancy? I had no idea when I decided to have my first child that it would mean I would have to quit my job and spend 9 months sick as fuck unable to get out of bed. Pregnancy has a lot of unforeseeable complications.

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Most abortions can and should be prevented. I don't agree with people using it as a means of emergency contraceptive because they didn't plan ahead. But to fix everything that is wrong with this scenario, someone would have to create a birth control that is 100% effective, and safe for everyone. Such a thing does not exist. We would have to overhaul every system that comes into play here, from the healthcare industry that makes it ridiculously expensive to have a child, to the adoption and foster care programs that don't give these children what they deserve and charge way too much to adopt, to recovery programs for mothers dealing with substance issues, and find some way to compensate women for their loss of pay when they are unable to work due to pregnancy. If you have the power or ability to fix all of these things, I'll back you. Until then, all we can do is fight for better sex education and better access to contraceptives so that women can make informed and responsible decisions regarding their reproductive health, and hopefully minimize the need for these services. But even if we could fix all these things, there would still be a small percentage of cases where an abortion is simply the best option, in my opinion.

You were missing a bracket on one of your quotes.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 03:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Does it constitute human life? You say yes. I say no. I would define 'human' as requiring brain function. Since we call people 'dead' when that brain function ceases.

That. Drinking Beverage

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2013 09:11 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
And they say all atheists have the same opinions......... Dodgy

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
And just to make my position absolutely clear.
Even if the unborn has a functioning brain, even if it has a consciousness. I am still pro-choice because it is still none of my business what a woman does with her unborn.
It seems completely arbitrary for a third party to say "because it has a brain therefore I am not going to let you abort it". How does the unborn having the possession of a brain all of a sudden make it the concern of this third party?
It would be like telling your neighbor that they aren't allowed to pick kiwifruit off their own vines unless the fruit is ripe. How is it any of your business when your neighbor picks their kiwifruit?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 05:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  And just to make my position absolutely clear.
Even if the unborn has a functioning brain, even if it has a consciousness. I am still pro-choice because it is still none of my business what a woman does with her unborn.
It seems completely arbitrary for a third party to say "because it has a brain therefore I am not going to let you abort it". How does the unborn having the possession of a brain all of a sudden make it the concern of this third party?
It would be like telling your neighbor that they aren't allowed to pick kiwifruit off their own vines unless the fruit is ripe. How is it any of your business when your neighbor picks their kiwifruit?

Then where exactly do you you draw the line? Can the mother kill her newborn child? Can she abort a baby at 8 months? There is somewhere where one has to draw the line. Such a line is going to be somewhat arbitrary, but I think
most atheists agree that aborting a fertilized egg is OK, and that
aborting a baby just before birth is not OK. I personally would draw the line
where a fetus can feel pain.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 06:17 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
The fact that there are such a multitude of opinions on the subject is the reason it should remain legal. I have personally known a female who was faced with this choice and ultimately got an abortion. She says it was the most emotionally taxing thing she ever experienced.

As a male, I cannot fathom making this decision. Claiming women getting abortions as a matter of convenience is preposterous. If your personal moral obligations prevent you from even considering it, good for you. However some people are not ready for the amount of commitment required to properly raise a child. In a perfect world adoption is the ideal solution, but alas, it is definitely not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 06:46 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 06:10 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  Then where exactly do you you draw the line? Can the mother kill her newborn child? Can she abort a baby at 8 months? There is somewhere where one has to draw the line. Such a line is going to be somewhat arbitrary, but I think
most atheists agree that aborting a fertilized egg is OK, and that
aborting a baby just before birth is not OK. I personally would draw the line
where a fetus can feel pain.
Great question.
I only see that it is my business to draw a line when I am personally impacted.
So if it endangers or harms me then it becomes my business.
Since I live in a society then I am impacted if society becomes dangerous.
So it must meet this criteria for me to support a law otherwise I am arbitrarily sticking my nose into the affairs of others.
Would an 8 month term abortion create conflict in society? I don't know. If it doesn't then I am pro-choice. If it does, then I need to protect myself and support a law against it.
It would be a worthy item for debate.

With regards to a new born (after birth), there might be issues (conflicts) with fathers, grandparents, and other do gooders. This might escallate into widespread violence and an unstable society.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 07:17 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
For me personally the line would be a fully developed central nervous system.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-10-2013, 07:21 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(10-10-2013 07:17 PM)Dom Wrote:  For me personally the line would be a fully developed central nervous system.
Would that be the line with regards to choosing to have an abortion yourself, or with regards to stopping all other women from having abortions?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: