Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
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08-10-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:The pro-choice argument often revolves around ruining the mothers life. ie: some 16 year old girl now becoming a mother.
But with adoption this isn't the case.
Right! In the case of giving up the baby, it only potentially ruins the child's life!

(I knew plenty of people who were in the foster care system, it's not all great all the time. I'd certainly say having a loving family that planned and wanted you would be better, usually.)
Quote: Letting some dude shove his unprotected dick into your vagina is a choice.
This ignores the fact that birth control fails.

So what you're basically saying (since you invoked rape and incest) is that women who enjoy sex should be punished for enjoying sex if they accidentally get pregnant. And their children should be punished, too.

The problem with talking about infertile couples is that there are many more unwanted children already than there are people who want to adopt. So that's why I think it's irresponsible to say all unwanted pregnancies should be carried to term.
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08-10-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
I think meeting the new niece softened Muffs a bit.

The idea that unwanted pregnancies should be brought to term because there are people that can't have children is not a valid reason to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term.

I agree that abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control but the truth of the matter is that birth control...even surgical birth control...is not always effective. How much more effort can you put into birth control than to have your tubes tied or a vasectomy? (Short of abstinence, that is.)

An unwanted pregnancy or a pregnancy that can be dangerous to the mother and/or child does not mean that the decision to terminate the pregnancy is taken lightly. There should be a safe way to end a pregnancy if that is the choice a woman makes.

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08-10-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Free will, if there is a mystical price to pay then the mother will bear it.

Abortion will happen no matter what, coat hangers, stomach punching, poison consumption or back alley premidwifes.
FFS let qualified doctors save the woman so when she is ready for a child her womb is not fraked.

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08-10-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:The idea that unwanted pregnancies should be brought to term because there are people that can't have children is not a valid reason to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term.
And again, there are WAY more children out there without parents than there are parents who want to adopt. And depending on circumstances, adopting can be difficult and you can get denied, so those people may not even be able to adopt. I don't think we're in danger of running out of adoptable children.

To me, saying abortion should only be for rape cases sounds misogynistic. Like the person doesn't care about the fetus' life exactly (since they're willing to abort in cases of rape), but base the abortability on whether or not the woman enjoyed the sex. If she didn't,it's ok to abort, the pregnancy is not her "fault". If she did, she should've kept her whore legs shut if she doesn't want children, because only abstinence is 100% effective and now she must have a baby as her "punishment". But then the same people seem to go on about the fetus' life as if it matters, but it only matters if the woman didn't have sex on purpose.
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08-10-2013, 02:48 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
@muffs You compare sex to murder? People (women) need to be punished for having sex? Do you not get much action? People in loving committed relationships should be free to have as much sex as they please, and the woman shouldn't have to worry about her career ending every time birth control methods fail. You're sounding awfully republican/religious with that line of thinking. I agree that if a mother is able that it's a noble choice to try to carry that baby to term, but forcing it on her by law isn't the way to do it, "choice" is the key word.

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08-10-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(08-10-2013 02:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What I'm trying to say is, why do we hold sex in a completely different light to pretty much everything else..?
It's a choice just like everything else. Just like alcohol is a choice. Just like taking drugs is a choice. Letting some dude shove his unprotected dick into your vagina is a choice.
As such I'm saying, just like murder, just like alcohol related offense, just like everything else in life, there should be consequences.

Murder is a choice. But maybe it's not always just a choice. Maybe it's an accident. And maybe there were extenuating circumstances. Maybe it wasn't even manslaughter - maybe it was self defense.

Taking drugs/alcohol/overeating food is a choice. But maybe it's not always just a choice. Maybe it's an accident. And maybe there were extenuating circumstances. Maybe it's a genetically predisposed addiction.

Letting some dude shove his unprotected dick into your vagina is a choice. But maybe it's not always just a choice. Maybe it's an accident. And maybe there were extenuating circumstances. Maybe there was a rubber and it broke.

Consequences don't always address everything that goes into the reasoning which governs choice. Choice can not predict and consequence is hindsight. Shy

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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08-10-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
As for consequences, it just seems wrong to me to punish women for having sex not only because that's wrong, but also because the child will also suffer, too, in many cases. Most abortions happen in the first several weeks. There is no dismemberment going on, there is nothing that even resembles a human, it's a clump of cells. If the woman decides it's not the right time in her life to have baby, it seems to me that the choice that benefits everyone the most would be to terminate that pregnancy.

And I don't understand the idea that women should be punished for having sex. Even if their birth control fails, they have to "suffer the consequences." That also seems like a fucked up way to view children: as punishment.

I just don't understand the view that more babies is always better. I'd be more worried about the baby's and the mother's quality of life. If she doesn't want a baby now, can't afford it, will ruin her career, whatever, then she can choose to terminate and maybe have one she wants at a later time.
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08-10-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Sorry Muffsy. Love ya dude but staunchly disagree. That is exactly why men, unless they have a vested interest, such as in responsible in part by causing a pregnancy, should frankly shut the fuck up and keep their opinion to themselves.

There are plenty of issues men can actively voice their opinion on, however until they (men) can actually grow a baby in their belllies or an embryo can be successfully transferred after implantation from one body, who presumably doesn't want it, to another who does, they should keep quiet.

In the end you opinion means as much as my opinion on viagra or prostate massage.


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08-10-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(08-10-2013 03:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Sorry Muffsy. Love ya dude but staunchly disagree. That is exactly why men, unless they have a vested interest, such as in responsible in part by causing a pregnancy, should frankly shut the fuck up and keep their opinion to themselves.

There are plenty of issues men can actively voice their opinion on, however until they (men) can actually grow a baby in their belllies or an embryo can be successfully transferred after implantation from one body, who presumably doesn't want it, to another who does, they should keep quiet.

In the end you opinion means as much as my opinion on viagra or prostate massage.

Dagnabbit, you must be one of those dang man-hatin' feminists I done hear'd about. Angry

Oh, wait.Consider

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08-10-2013, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 03:28 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Lots wrong with this...

For starters your adoption solution only works for high demand brand new white babies, there a plenty of kids that wind up in the foster system today.

Second, it doesn't account for the public health cost of illegal abortion, nor does it account for the public cost of enforcing, prosecuting and penalizing abortionists/abortionees.

Third, it grossly oversimplifies the process of giving birth and then giving up that child...

Fourth, it's based on the same BS 'life begins at conception' rhetoric that is completely unfounded....

Fifth, it creates legal gray areas, encourages pregnant women to claim they where raped, etc...

Sixth, it places increased strain on the medical system to deliver unwanted babies (often for patients without means/insurance) for many times the cost of an abortion...

Seventh, it doesn't even solve a problem?

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