Why I am no longer pro-choice no longer.
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08-10-2013, 03:29 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
I wrote an essay on this once and am inclined to agree with Earmuffs.
Abortion on demand IMO can be carried to extremes, and adoption is certainly an option. Young Mums to be, may be more traumatised after an abortion than if they had gone through with the pregnancy. Nine months is not a life time.

There is also the matter of, in some instances, abortion clinics becoming a quick fix means of contraception. There is this entrepreneurial aspect to consider. What of nurses being, in some instances forced to work in these clinics. Surely males and females need to be far more responsible where procreation is concerned.

From a purely evolutionary aspect, a one off chance at life may be seen as more important than the arguments posited by theists as, if the latter was reliable, a loving God could hardly be seen as being vicious towards foetuses.

Danger to the mother appears justifiable in terminating a pregnancy, but as for open slather abortion on demand, this comes across as far from being a clear cut issue......
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08-10-2013, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 03:48 PM by amyb.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:Surely males and females need to be far more responsible where procreation is concerned.
What happens if birth control fails? If someone is using birth control, I'd consider that person "being responsible" even if a pregnancy occurs.

But there it is again: punishing the woman for having and enjoying sex. I'd say abortion is a responsible decision in many cases.

Quote:There is also the matter of, in some instances, abortion clinics becoming a quick fix means of contraception.
People almost mention this, and I have a damned hard time believing that a significant number of women use it as birth control. Even if a small number do, that doesn't invalidate the need for abortion in other instances.

It's like when people make a big deal that 1-2% of people on welfare abuse the system, as though that means legitimately needy people and their kids should starve to death in the streets.
Quote: There is this entrepreneurial aspect to consider.
Seriously? Providing a needed medical service? Are they going to be out recruiting pregnant women in the streets or what?

Quote:Abortion on demand IMO can be carried to extremes,
Eating can be carried to extremes, but we don't ban food.

Quote: Young Mums to be, may be more traumatised after an abortion than if they had gone through with the pregnancy. Nine months is not a life time.
No one said otherwise. But I still don't see why the chance of trauma would justify taking away her choice in the matter. Having an unwanted baby can be pretty damn traumatic too, to the mother and to the child if it's forced to live in the state system because it doesn't have parents who want it.

And we're not even talking about psychological trauma; we're talking about whether or not a woman has the right to choose when and if to have a baby.
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08-10-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
(08-10-2013 03:44 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:Surely males and females need to be far more responsible where procreation is concerned.
What happens if birth control fails? If someone is using birth control, I'd consider that person "being responsible" even if a pregnancy occurs.

But there it is again: punishing the woman for having and enjoying sex. I'd say abortion is a responsible decision in many cases.

Quote:There is also the matter of, in some instances, abortion clinics becoming a quick fix means of contraception.
People almost mention this, and I have a damned hard time believing that a significant number of women use it as birth control. Even if a small number do, that doesn't invalidate the need for abortion in other instances.

It's like when people make a big deal that 1-2% of people on welfare abuse the system, as though that means legitimately needy people and their kids should starve to death in the streets.
Quote: There is this entrepreneurial aspect to consider.
Seriously? Providing a needed medical service? Are they going to be out recruiting pregnant women in the streets or what?

Quote:Abortion on demand IMO can be carried to extremes,
Eating can be carried to extremes, but we don't ban food.

Quote: Young Mums to be, may be more traumatised after an abortion than if they had gone through with the pregnancy. Nine months is not a life time.
No one said otherwise. But I still don't see why the chance of trauma would justify taking away her choice in the matter. Having an unwanted baby can be pretty damn traumatic too, to the mother and to the child if it's forced to live in the state system because it doesn't have parents who want it.

And we're not even talking about psychological trauma; we're talking about whether or not a woman has the right to choose when and if to have a baby.

I don't think the analogy re eating is a very good one, one can eat a lot and still live many years......

Why can't we talk about psychological trauma; if a woman becomes traumatised post abortion. Are you saying this cannot happen?

The simply chop out the problem mentality may be not as valuable to a smooth running and compassionate society, as many would seem to suggest.
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08-10-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:Why can't we talk about psychological trauma; if a woman becomes traumatised post abortion. Are you saying this cannot happen?
I didn't say we can't mention it, I said it's not the topic at hand. Also, the fact that it can happen in either case seems to invalidate it. Just because a thing can be traumatic doesn't cancel out any potential value it has, either.

Quote:The simply chop out the problem mentality may be not as valuable to a smooth running and compassionate society, as many would seem to suggest.
I don't think anyone was suggesting it was a simple decision. As for compassion, it seems like a lot people don't have any for women, if they think they need to be punished for having sex.

Quote:I don't think the analogy re eating is a very good one, one can eat a lot and still live many years......
I mean that just because a thing can be "abused" doesn't mean it should necessarily be illegal.
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08-10-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
As if we didn't have enough kids being abused and neglected by parents who never wanted them...It's the kids of these forced pregnancies that ultimately pay the price.

Not to mention the severe depression a new mother undergoes if she gives up a child she bore.

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08-10-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
There seems to be an assumption in many posts that there is something wrong with abortion, but it is not stated.

If you believe there is something inherently wrong with abortion such that it has to be justified, please be explicit.

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08-10-2013, 04:30 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Earmuffs, why so silent?

So, what you're saying is, I should either be forced to give birth to a child in case contraception fails or stop having sex. A woman can only be a mother (as others said, it's not like you can give up the kid and hope it will be ok) or celibate. Now, how fair is that.

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08-10-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
I dunno if some1 wrote it,but i think that if a woman decides to have an abortion,the woman suffers the consequenses. If she is forced to hold unwanted baby,the child and the woman suffer. And then there is that if a woman can't get a legal abortion,she can do it in a back alley. Better to do it state regulated than in an unhygienic way that increases the chance of complications

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08-10-2013, 04:49 PM
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:Earmuffs, why so silent?

Because you lot keep posting.
Almost finished replying to page 2...

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08-10-2013, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 04:57 PM by Slowminded.)
RE: Why I am no longer pro-choice.
Quote:She said to me "I don't see why a women can't carry a baby to term".
Sure, but why should she if she doesn't want to?

Quote:The pro-choice argument often revolves around ruining the mothers life. ie: some 16 year old girl now becoming a mother.
Why doesn't it revolves around what potential mother wants ? Fetus is not a child, abortion is not a murder thus state/law and society shouldn't get a say in this at all.
I think she's not obligated even to her partner to keep the baby , and certainly not to the state.

Quote: It can simply not be okay for us to simply say "oh you made a bad choice, it's okay you can have a little procedure and carry on with your life". NO, that's not good enough. We should be saying, you made a mistake, you live with the consequences. Just like if that same 16 year old was to kill someone, hell even manslaughter, there would be serious consequences.
You are equating murder and getting pregnant in terms that consequences must be suffered ? But there is a huge difference. Having an unprotected sex and getting pregnant is not a crime, so consequences should not be forced upon by the law.

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