Why I'm a Theist
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24-07-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
In summary: science doesn't have all the answers yet, therefore Gawd.

Carry on.
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24-07-2015, 07:39 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
I'm back from my meeting. Good grief! Does this guy wait for me to literally leave town before he starts on this crap?

How come I always miss the parties?

Dogdamn work.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-07-2015, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2015 08:21 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(24-07-2015 05:48 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  Facts that support the atheist point of view would cause me to re-think theism. Not atheism as described by many as a 'lack of belief' or a rejection of the claim of theism. Real atheism, which means 'naturedidit' not Goddidit. To be convinced of atheism you have to believe that mindless forces always existed or somehow bootstrapped themselves into existence and caused the big bang which turned into a universe with the characteristics to create something utterly unlike the source it came from, life and sentience. I find it a bit humorous that many atheists marginalize theism by saying its magic or an extraordinary claim. What non-magical non-extraordinary claim are atheists making?

None and nothing. You clearly *need* to tell yourself that rubbish.
You really are an obsessional dolt. Atheism is not what it is, because of your fool definition, except in your obsessed head with it's need for an explanation, any explanation, as long as you get it today. It's been explained to you time and again here, why this is all crap. You can't see the forest for the trees, or beyond your obsessions. Sucks to be you.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-07-2015, 10:17 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2015 10:26 PM by xieulong.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
Quote:Not atheism as described by many as a 'lack of belief' or a rejection of the claim of theism.
Why is this a problem to you? You claim that a god exist, I don't believe you. That makes me an atheist, that's it, nothing else. It's a very small part of a person.
How life started, how the universe started, life exist elsewhere or not, etc. all irrelevant.
An atheist can be interested in science, the origin of life, the universe, evolution or not. Doesn't matter.
The ONLY reason I'm an atheist is my lack of belief in the existence of any god.

Quote:What non-magical non-extraordinary claim are atheists making?
NONE!!!!!! Get that through your thick skull, man...... Again, I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand?


Quote:There is actually a type of science that does that very thing. Its a criminologists job to determine if a death is by natural causes or the result of a personal agent.
Criminology is the scientific study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on the individual and social levels. It has nothing to with the question if something was designed or not.


Quote:If we were to find life on some other planet or moon I think that would be a feather in atheists cap.
Irrelevant to atheism. It simply means that the hypothesis that life exist elsewhere is correct.
This may be a problem for some theists, I would imagine. Maybe some of you would make a claim that god put life elsewhere, too.


Quote:If the theory of everything pans out.
This means some physicists are correct. Irrelevant to atheism.


Quote:If scientists can actually replicate the way they say life occurred.
This means those scientists found a way to created some life, they can then say that it may have happened that way. Again irrelevant to atheism. Some theists may have problem with it; some of you may even claim "Huh duh, God did that a long time ago, scientists are just finding out now, hahaha derp derp, you just proved God". Some fucking stupid crap like that.


Quote:if scientists can demonstrate this is one of a huge number of variable universes.
Then those scientists would be correct. Not a damm thing to do with atheism.


Soooooooooooooo I stated earlier that the only reason I'm an atheist is my lack of belief in god/gods.
You've made it clear that you don't accept that.
So what would you call a guy like me?
Xieulong, the guy who doesn't believe in any god?
I'm actually ok with that hahaLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load
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25-07-2015, 05:16 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 04:59 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  1. The fact the universe exists

There are certain facts that must be true for anyone to think God exists. For humans to have any reason to think God might exist, we must have a place that allows us to live. There are in fact several facts and conditions that must be true in order for there to be any reason to think the existence of a Creator is true. None of those facts needs to be true for atheism to be true. Atheism doesn't require the existence of a universe to believe atheism is true. If the universe didn't exist atheism might still be false (God might exist but not have created the universe) but there would be no evidential reason to raise the existence of God. Additional lines of evidence soon to follow...

I guess you would say the universe is better explained as a product of creation, a product of intent and foresight, than one absent of these features? Or something along those lines.

I guess your case would be theism vs materialism and perhaps physicalism?

Is there any particular benefit for you in holding your opinion? Or would it likely be of no real consequence if you didn't believe at all?
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25-07-2015, 07:19 AM
Why I'm a Theist
If the "evidence" is up to your opinion, then it's not evidence.

The universe/life existing is just evidence of it existing. Nothing more nothing less. It's illogical to jump to the conclusion of a creator.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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25-07-2015, 07:26 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
Your first «evidence» of the existence of God is irrelevant. The fact the universe exists would only be relevant if a god created it and we could attribute it to it without doubt. In Norse mythology, the world in which we live was created by Giant and the multiverse sits upon a tree that is basically eternal. Only heaven was created by the gods and only with the help of giants. In Greek mythology, the world was created by the Titans and the gods are their descendant. In Celtic mythology is rather similar to Norse and it seems that for them the world created itself from mist turning into all sorts of things and the gods are the very first intelligent being to be born on it. In Hinduism, the universe is nothing more than the body of a God transformed into matter by the power of their supreme deity. In Buddhism, the universe is an illusion which goes against your claim that the universe can be use has a proof. Buddhists would deny that you can have «evidence». Has you can see, many people have very different types of gods with different powers and characteristics. You will have to demonstrate that they are wrong just like you will have to prove that there is no reasonable reason to doubt the existence of any God.
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25-07-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(25-07-2015 07:19 AM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  If the "evidence" is up to your opinion, then it's not evidence.

The universe/life existing is just evidence of it existing. Nothing more nothing less. It's illogical to jump to the conclusion of a creator.

HAH!
[Image: conclusions_zpsku53gu6a.jpg]
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25-07-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 05:40 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 05:34 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Hi DREW! I see you were banned from atheistforums.com

I bet I can predict your point #3, because I'm MAGIC:


Did I get it?

http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5404.90

I would be proud of being banned from that forum but all I did to warrant being banned was to make my case for theism. That's how that forum squelches dissent.

I plan to make the same case here...if its tolerated. We mustn't let freethinkers think too freely...

Hmm... a control freak if there ever was one. Shy How traditional of you, Drewpaul. I might guess you were raised Catholic... but I don't want to cause anyone a cringing flashback.

Oh well, welcome to the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-07-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(24-07-2015 12:33 PM)pablo Wrote:  
Quote: I don't know of anyone who rejects claims they think are true just to be obstinate or argumentative.

You're kidding right?
Theists do this even when proof has been presented and thoroughly explained to them. Happens all the time.

Proof that atheism is true? I'd like to hear that.
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