Why I'm a Theist
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29-07-2015, 07:30 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
Free,

Quote:It's not a matter of belief with atheists. The position of atheism is best described historically as "the state of being godless." Modernly, it is best described quite simply as disbelief in gods.

That is what it is...but many atheists not wanting to have to defend a belief (that God doesn't exist) prefer to claim they merely lack belief in God but don't deny God exists. This makes debating the existence of God a bit difficult.
Quote:We do not have any beliefs accepted as facts. That's an oxymoron. We only have facts, and no beliefs at all.

I think you speak only for yourself. You can have beliefs (opinions) based on facts.


Quote:Beliefs are best characterized as something akin to faith, and in the context of religion and the subject matter of this discussion, characterizing the atheistic position as being in a state of belief is a mis-characterization and distortion of fact.

I don't think so. Even a disbelief can be an opinion of something you think isn't true unless your stating such belief as a fact in which case the burden of proof rises several degrees.

Quote:Atheists would not dispute evidence provided, if it were in fact evidence that demonstrates support for the claim. Many times people will claim something to be evidence of one thing, while completely excluding other more plausible explanations.

Whether evidence (facts) support a claim is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, preferably a impartial trier of facts.

In this scenario [no universe], no life would exist to make claims about anything, since we wouldn't have a planet to stand on.

Nonetheless the claim there is no evidence or anything to attribute to a Creator would be true.

Quote:The fact that the universe exists demonstrates absolutely nothing about it being created by either a creator or by natural means.

Not by itself. Still if I claimed God caused the universe to exist and there was no universe the statement I have no evidence would be true. If you claim natural forces caused the universe to exist or that the universe always existed then you can point to the universe as support of that claim, though in either case the universe alone won't suffice.

Quote:Can you provide any evidence to support the claim that the universe was ever created by anything?

I point to the fact of its existence in support of that belief and its stated as a fact by scientists that the universe began to exist approx 13.5 billion years ago.
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29-07-2015, 07:45 PM (This post was last modified: 30-07-2015 12:08 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(29-07-2015 07:30 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  This makes debating the existence of God a bit difficult.

What makes it difficult is that you *claim* your *belief is non-religious, yet have not defined a *god* and capitalize the word, and appear to conceptualize the word in every traditional way, yet attempt to claim you don't. You are intellectually dishonest.

Quote:I think you speak only for yourself. You can have beliefs (opinions) based on facts.

No. On the contrary it is YOU that speak only for yourself. YOU can, as you have redefined it for yourself. No one else has agreed to participate in your little delusional world.

Quote:Whether evidence (facts) support a claim is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, preferably a impartial trier of facts.

Proof you have no clue about science or logic. You just contradicted yourself. How do you get both of those in the same person ? Facepalm


Quote:In this scenario [no universe], no life would exist to make claims about anything, since we wouldn't have a planet to stand on.

Completely irrelevant. You keep repeating this garbage, which in fact has no actual bearing on anything. Just word salad.

Quote:Not by itself. Still if I claimed God caused the universe to exist and there was no universe the statement I have no evidence would be true.

No shit, Sherlock.

Quote:If you claim natural forces caused the universe to exist or that the universe always existed then you can point to the universe as support of that claim, though in either case the universe alone ... bla bla bla

Another irrelevant stupid meaningless tautology.

Quote:I point to the fact of its existence in support of that belief and its stated as a fact by scientists that the universe began to exist approx 13.5 billion years ago.

That in no way supports anything you claim it does. It's irrelevant, as you are so tangled up in your words, you have no clue what you're even trying to say. You think you have an argument. In fact all you have are irrelevant tautologies and non-sequiturs, which are meaningless.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-07-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
To claim a god created the universe, there must have been a time, a very very long period of time when there was no universe.

And as you've already stated, if there is no universe, then you have no evidence nor any reason for a god to exist.

So truthfully, a universe is a requirement for a god to exist. A universe must come into being and then after this happens and only after it happens can you envision that a god exists.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-07-2015, 12:21 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
Title of thread: "Why I'm a theist"

Reason (as far as I can tell): "Because I like fairytales"

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-07-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(30-07-2015 12:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  Title of thread: "Why I'm a theist"

Reason (as far as I can tell): "Because I like fairytales"

Basically yeah. Regardless of your religious brand of choice, it boils down to "I don't know how this happened, it must be a magic man in the sky".

If I just switch off from Asshole mode for a moment... I can see why people say it. We hate not knowing and we look for answers and it is an easy answer on the surface.

However, this planet is only perfect for us same as how a rotten chicken is perfect for maggots. We are a product of the condition of the planet... Not the reason for it.
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30-07-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(28-07-2015 01:12 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  Bucky,

Quote:I really wish theist idiots would stop with the "naturalism" already. Whatever there is, is "natural". That would include your stupid set of gods, *if* they happened to exist. Their existence would be perfectly ''natural". It's a fake dichotomy. Are they "unnatural" ?

I wish atheists would quit using the term supernatural as if it means anything.

I agree with you, it's more or less a meaningless word.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-07-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
He also seems to have a lot of presuppositions about Atheist. He has ignored all my post I put on his thread. So I sent him an invitation for a 1on1 debate in the boxing ring to perhaps clear some of these up and he has yet to respond.


Invitation still stands Drewpaul.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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30-07-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(30-07-2015 09:52 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  He also seems to have a lot of presuppositions about Atheist. He has ignored all my post I put on his thread. So I sent him an invitation for a 1on1 debate in the boxing ring to perhaps clear some of these up and he has yet to respond.

Invitation still stands Drewpaul.

That's his MO. But it doesn't matter. The majority of viewers here are guests, and they can decide for themselves, based on what they see, what is being addressed, and what is not. Whether he replies or not, they make their own judgements.

For example :

"That is what it is...but many atheists not wanting to have to defend a belief (that God doesn't exist) prefer to claim they merely lack belief in God but don't deny God exists. This makes debating the existence of God a bit difficult."....

is complete bullshit. If someone had to defend EVERY concept that is dismissed as it's incoherent or just downright ridiculous, (as is the notion of an undefined deity) nothing else would ever get done. It's just 2 year-old behavior, demanding that the simplistic chidish arguments remain on the only level they know how to argue on.
Dismissing incoherent claims is not "belief", (except to someone who has redefined it for HIMSELF maybe it could be ... who knows).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-07-2015, 08:05 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(30-07-2015 09:52 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  He also seems to have a lot of presuppositions about Atheist. He has ignored all my post I put on his thread. So I sent him an invitation for a 1on1 debate in the boxing ring to perhaps clear some of these up and he has yet to respond.


Invitation still stands Drewpaul.

I didn't respond because I felt you were taking the post on a tangent. I did respond to your first post.
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30-07-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(30-07-2015 08:05 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 09:52 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  He also seems to have a lot of presuppositions about Atheist. He has ignored all my post I put on his thread. So I sent him an invitation for a 1on1 debate in the boxing ring to perhaps clear some of these up and he has yet to respond.


Invitation still stands Drewpaul.

I didn't respond because I felt you were taking the post on a tangent. I did respond to your first post.

You're thought processes are on a tangent.
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