Why I'm a Theist
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23-07-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
*hypothesooth Big Grin
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23-07-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 05:23 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  2. The fact life exists

Like your first point, life existing is evidence only for life existing and not why or what caused it. Experiments show that simple chemicals tend to form compounds key to life. They have been detected in meteorites and in space so it appears that the very basic building blocks of life are relatively common and easy to create. That, plus time, makes it seem that there is no huge obstacle to the formation of simple self-replicating molecules and with that evolution can kick in.

We may not have identified all the pieces, but there doesn't appear to be any major obstacle to life forming without any intelligent designer unless you deny the age of the universe.

Neither of your first two points are evidence FOR a god nor are they evidence against one. That's the problem with a claim that magic exists... if you grant that it does then everything can be explained that way whether there is a natural explanation or not.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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23-07-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 05:35 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  Buckyball,

Quote:In fact the notion of a "creator" is incoherent. "Creation" is a action verb that requires (space)-time to be extant ALREADY. A god that "exists" does not *not exist*, therefore, Reality (existence AND non-existence) has always been LARGER than your deity. Reality remains unexplained by a deity that MUST participate in a larger Reality. An infinite eternal deity that "does something" is not infinite, as the action is time-stamp in it's past and future, AND means it's not "timeless.

What you've actually accomplished is to demonstrate why a 'naturalistic' cause of the universe (or reality) is a non-starter because natural causes would require space-time to be extant. What you've done is taken the concept of a transcendent deity (you may want to look up what transcendent means) replaced that with a mortal deity and then complained its not possible. That's like someone who shoots his parents and then complains about being an orphan. But by all means if a deity is incapable of causing a universe to exist for the reasons you cited how did mechanistic forces accomplish it? Or do you deny a universe exists?

I did no such thing. What you did was demonstrate that you don't get it. No one said anything about a "mortal" deity. You need to look up the word "mortal". YOU are claiming a deity done did it. I made no claim about how it happened. The fact is we don't know at this point what happened. Maybe it never "happened". Roger Penrose (Hawking's friend) has posited that Reality is simply an infinite series of bangs and re-bangs. The total energy of the universe is zero, (gravity has a negative energy). Maybe nothing happened. Maybe the universe is a spontaneous fluctuation in a much larger Reality. Maybe there is nothing to explain. I know what "transcendent" means and YOU have not a shred of evidence for that (special pleading) concept. The fact is you suffer from low-ambiguity tolerance and a NEED for cognitive closure, so you MUST have an answer today. You have a psychological disability that drives your theism.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-07-2015, 06:01 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2015 06:12 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 05:11 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 05:01 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ah, another expert on what atheists think....

This is a good example of the kind of one sentence no substance response that I will ignore...

And yet you didn't.

(23-07-2015 05:08 PM)drewpaul Wrote:  I won't respond to one liners or personal attacks (so far everyone seems civil) thoughtful replies will get the most attention.

I think you should devote your attention to WhiskeyDebates. He's in charge of the welcoming committee for your ilk. He has hugs and kisses and flowers and chocolates and massages and shit for newbies like you. You'll like him. He's a nice guy.

#sigh
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23-07-2015, 06:08 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
I continued reading through his "debate" on atheistforums.com until I got to this gem:

They pointed out to him that he was listing numerous false causalities (in the midst of a massacre of question-begging) stating that things were evidence because he said they were evidence, with nothing else to go with that, and when someone AGAIN explain that he had presented no actual evidence, he said:

Quote:There is evidence, I have submitted three lines of evidence thus far. You can say you don't agree with the evidence, or the evidence doesn't persuade you but you can't call it non-evidence just because you don't agree with it.

He clearly does not understand, or is unwilling to learn, or is willing to pretend he does not know, the laws of logic. He deliberately misconstrues what constitutes evidence in a debate, rather than asserting questions-begged. So, sorry guys, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to throw the flag on this one:

Two Penalties on the play!

[Image: argument_beggingquestion_zpsgsnh2log.jpg]
[Image: argument_causality_zpsjojtts5z.jpg]

Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat First Down.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-07-2015, 06:09 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 05:49 PM)pablo Wrote:  *hypothesooth Big Grin

Does that make this guy a hypothesoothsayer?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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23-07-2015, 06:10 PM
Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 06:08 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I continued reading through his "debate" on atheistforums.com until I got to this gem:

They pointed out to him that he was listing numerous false causalities (in the midst of a massacre of question-begging) stating that things were evidence because he said they were evidence, with nothing else to go with that, and when someone AGAIN explain that he had presented no actual evidence, he said:

Quote:There is evidence, I have submitted three lines of evidence thus far. You can say you don't agree with the evidence, or the evidence doesn't persuade you but you can't call it non-evidence just because you don't agree with it.

He clearly does not understand, or is unwilling to learn, or is willing to pretend he does not know, the laws of logic. He deliberately misconstrues what constitutes evidence in a debate, rather than asserting questions-begged. So, sorry guys, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to throw the flag on this one:

Two Penalties on the play!

[Image: argument_beggingquestion_zpsgsnh2log.jpg]
[Image: argument_causality_zpsjojtts5z.jpg]

Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat First Down.

Ahhhh come on ref!!!!!! That's a shit call and you know it!!!!!!

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-07-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(23-07-2015 06:08 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I continued reading through his "debate" on atheistforums.com until I got to this gem:
He clearly does not understand, or is unwilling to learn, or is willing to pretend he does not know, the laws of logic. He deliberately misconstrues what constitutes evidence in a debate, rather than asserting questions-begged. So, sorry guys, but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to throw the flag on this one:

Two Penalties on the play!
Fifteen yard penalty. Repeat First Down.

20 minutes in the penalty box with earmuffs.

#sigh
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23-07-2015, 06:15 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
And, as one of the posters over there told him, twice:




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-07-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
The fact is, he used the word "exists". That word comes with (probably by him, unexamined) baggage. I challenge him to define what it means (to exist) and in so doing, employ no word or concept that encompasses time or anything temporal.

He can't and he won't.
The concept of a deity ''existing" is incoherent, even if it's "transcendent".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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