Why I'm a Theist
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06-08-2015, 06:38 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  A common godless alternative to a first cause, is that we're a product not of any prime mover, but a series of physical accidents, ...

Events, not "accidents".

When someone doesn't understand what the word "random" means, it's easy to conflate accident and event.

That or the word "accident" fits his theistic straw man of atheism.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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06-08-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  A common godless alternative to a first cause, is that we're a product not of any prime mover, but a series of physical accidents, ...

Events, not "accidents".

Accidents, not merely events. If you don't want to accept this, you're only making the case for atheism even less believable. It should be theists who refuse to accept that, not atheists, lol.

“ Theism cannot accept the notion that we are a side effect, by-product, accident or coincidence, an unanticipated and unintended outcome.”

Excerpt From: Rosenberg, Alex. “The Atheist's Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life without Illusions.” iBooks.
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06-08-2015, 06:42 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2015 08:11 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  A common godless alternative to a first cause, is that we're a product not of any prime mover, but a series of physical accidents, ...

Events, not "accidents".

Highly improbable individual (unrelated) events happen all the time. Once the first event has occurred, each succeeding event in a chain of related events is far more probable, sometimes. "Accident" and "random" are intentional, biased, ignorant theist propagandistic buzz words, used by people who either are just ignorant of probability theory, or perversely intentionally pushing their agenda.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-08-2015, 06:44 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Events, not "accidents".

When someone doesn't understand what the word "random" means, it's easy to conflate accident and event.

That or the word "accident" fits his theistic straw man of atheism.

"We are an accident. From the cosmic lottery hat containing zillions of universes, we happened to draw a universe that allowed life." -The physicist, Alan Lightman.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/accidental...ef_results
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06-08-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(05-08-2015 06:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Santa Claus is clearly more believable as a first cause for the universe than an invisible , undefinable god .

Santa is all about magic and has TARDIS technology to fit all those toys into a small bag.

I really can't see any reason why Santa couldn't get a universe going.

He's Santa. He can do anything Smile

No. You are going to hell, and burn, burn burn.

It was Mr. Peanut. Forsooth, it has thus been revealed unto me. Alleluia. Amen.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-08-2015, 06:46 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  When someone doesn't understand what the word "random" means, it's easy to conflate accident and event.

That or the word "accident" fits his theistic straw man of atheism.

"We are an accident. From the cosmic lottery hat containing zillions of universes, we happened to draw a universe that allowed life." -The physicist, Alan Lightman.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/accidental...ef_results

Hey look! An irrelevant quote that's an appeal to authority.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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06-08-2015, 06:52 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  When someone doesn't understand what the word "random" means, it's easy to conflate accident and event.

That or the word "accident" fits his theistic straw man of atheism.

"We are an accident. From the cosmic lottery hat containing zillions of universes, we happened to draw a universe that allowed life." -The physicist, Alan Lightman.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/accidental...ef_results

The quote refers to the universe as a whole, and it's entire set of properties. He is correct. With an infinite number of universes, it is very probable that among them ALL, there would arise ONE, that had the properties we observe in this one. One in which Chaos Theory is true, and in which order arises spontaneously. He is NOT referring to the events INSIDE and ascribed TO THIS universe, once it occurs. Tomasia's quote is irrelevant, and is not applicable to this discussion. His delusional desperate bias is showing.

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06-08-2015, 06:59 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Highly improbable individual events happen all the time. Once the first event has occurred, each succeeding event in a chain is far more probable. "Accident" and "random" are intentional, biased, ignorant theist propagandistic buzz words, used by people who either are just ignorant of probability theory, or perversely intentionally pushing their agenda.

lol, it's funny watching how you folks take issue with the term "accident", but not when you hear of accidental pregnancies or car crashes, etc., where it implies that an event that transpired was without apparent or deliberate cause, was unintentional, etc... The argument here reeks of very bad apologetics, your contradictions and incoherency arise to the surface rather quick. It puts you in a poor light.

It's revealing to me, how it's not just a hard pill to swallow for theists, but also for many atheists, who don't recognize that by refusing to swallow it, they make their case even less convincing.
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06-08-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The quote refers to the universe as a whole, and it's entire set of properties. He is correct. With an infinite number of universes, it is very probable that among them ALL, there would arise ONE, that had the properties we observe in this one. One in which Chaos Theory is true, and in which order arises spontaneously. He is NOT referring to the events INSIDE and ascribed TO THIS universe, once it occurs. Tomasia's quote is irrelevant, and is not applicable to this discussion. His delusional desperate bias is showing.

So you think the accidents he refers to, which you seem to accept, and will concede are accidents, are a different set than the one's I'm referring to?
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06-08-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(06-08-2015 06:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Highly improbable individual events happen all the time. Once the first event has occurred, each succeeding event in a chain is far more probable. "Accident" and "random" are intentional, biased, ignorant theist propagandistic buzz words, used by people who either are just ignorant of probability theory, or perversely intentionally pushing their agenda.

lol, it's funny watching how you folks take issue with the term "accident", but not when you hear of accidental pregnancies or car crashes, etc., where it implies that an event that transpired was without apparent or deliberate cause, was unintentional, etc... The argument here reeks of very bad apologetics, your contradictions and incoherency arise to the surface rather quick. It puts you in a poor light.

It's revealing to me, how it's not just a hard pill to swallow for theists, but also for many atheists, who don't recognize that by refusing to swallow it, they make their case even less convincing.

No. Your use of the word is intentional propaganda, and reveals your ignorance of math.

Your analogy is false. No one here said car crashes were an "accident". Given certain circumstances they are highly probable. The colloquial use is far different than the scientific use. Nice try. Fail again. You forgot one teensy weensy thing, dear. You forgot to provide any support for your claim how exactly it "reeks". We get that you think it's "revealing". It's your bias showing it's ugly head, preacher man. Thumbsup

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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