Why I'm a Theist
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10-08-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  The universe exhibits intentionality in its existence and operation or not; there is no evidence that it does.

There is no evidence or reason to assume unintentionality. There is no evidence that it is.

Person A can continue to believe he is unsure one way or the other, that there's isn't any evidence to side with one position over the other, to assume one a default over the other, or even as a working hypothesis.

The only reason you prefer to start with unintentionality, is because you like it, thats it.

Oh, for fuck's sake: "unintentionality" is not a thing that can be exhibited. You are confused.

Intentionality is either present or absent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-08-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:14 AM)Free Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As Chas pointed out, assuming that valuing existence is a uniquely human behavior is an assumption without evidence. Animals resisting death suggests they value living over not living.

we are not speaking about how animals resist death, for we already know all sentient life does that. That is not teh question here.

The question is here regarding whether or not self-aware creatures have the thinking ability to ascribe meaning to existence, such as humans do.

And you gave that question a definite and unsupported answer. Your restricting it to humans is an unwarranted claim.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-08-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Rock falls off cliff and kills man unintentionally. World stunned that rock was able to tell world it wasn't intentional.

Even in this example, there's a variety of reasons, if it is in fact true, based on evidence, to believe it was unintentional. It's a position based on evidence, as opposed to the rock being pushed by intentional agents.
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10-08-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Rock falls off cliff and kills man unintentionally. World stunned that rock was able to tell world it wasn't intentional.

Even in this example, there's a variety of reasons, if it is in fact true, based on evidence, to believe it was unintentional. It's a position based on evidence, as opposed to the rock being pushed by intentional agents.

Fuck you're dumb.

Describing it as unintentional, suggests it could have been intentional but wasn't.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-08-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There is no evidence or reason to assume unintentionality. There is no evidence that it is.

Person A can continue to believe he is unsure one way or the other, that there's isn't any evidence to side with one position over the other, to assume one a default over the other, or even as a working hypothesis.

The only reason you prefer to start with unintentionality, is because you like it, thats it.

Oh, for fuck's sake: "unintentionality" is not a thing that can be exhibited. You are confused.

Intentionality is either present or absent.

Oh, for fuck's sake. If you saying it can't be exhibited, then you can't claim something was "unintentional, or use it as a working hypothesis, or as a default position. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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10-08-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake: "unintentionality" is not a thing that can be exhibited. You are confused.

Intentionality is either present or absent.

Oh, for fuck's sake. If you saying it can't be exhibited, then you can't claim something was "unintentional, or use it as a working hypothesis, or as a default position. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

A rock is unconfused about your intentions to apply unintentionally to its journey down the hill.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-08-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
Step 1: Make up a term that has no meaning, as the opposite of a term with meaning.

Step 2: Apply that term to physics in a way that has no bearing on what we observe.

Step 3: Demand that people explain to you why your new term is actually their viewpoint.

Step 4: Refuse to accept "you made it up" as a valid objection.

Step 5: Knock over the pieces on the chessboard and scream "checkmate!"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-08-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:30 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Step 1: Make up a term that has no meaning, as the opposite of a term with meaning.

Step 2: Apply that term to physics in a way that has no bearing on what we observe.

Step 3: Demand that people explain to you why your new term is actually their viewpoint.

Step 4: Refuse to accept "you made it up" as a valid objection.

Step 5: Knock over the pieces on the chessboard and scream "checkmate!"

Rocks are unconfused about your example. Are you saying that they are unintentionally aware?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-08-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:30 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Step 1: Make up a term that has no meaning, as the opposite of a term with meaning.

Step 2: Apply that term to physics in a way that has no bearing on what we observe.

Step 3: Demand that people explain to you why your new term is actually their viewpoint.

Step 4: Refuse to accept "you made it up" as a valid objection.

Step 5: Knock over the pieces on the chessboard and scream "checkmate!"

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Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-08-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 09:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake: "unintentionality" is not a thing that can be exhibited. You are confused.

Intentionality is either present or absent.

Oh, for fuck's sake. If you saying it can't be exhibited, then you can't claim something was "unintentional, or use it as a working hypothesis, or as a default position. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You need to read what people actually write. Please quote me where I make a claim of "unintentionality". I'll wait. Drinking Beverage

Without evidence of intentionality, it cannot be assumed. There is no such property as "unintentionality" - intentionality is either present or not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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