Why I'm a Theist
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10-08-2015, 11:45 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:44 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "...he would very likely conclude (like most primitive people) that the powerful forces of nature were controlled by supernatural beings."

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

By observation. Primitive people with no science have universally attributed forces of nature to supernatural beings. Modern science took hundreds of years of geniuses piggybacking on each other's achievements. No uneducated person is going to come up with it on his own. "Supernatural beings" is a much more plausible answer to the uneducated mind.

This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-08-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:41 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  What if the man actually committed the crime, but no evidence was found?

You can't conclude they did it without evidence and the probabilities remain as I state them.

A cause without evidence of it being linked in any way to the effect, is an untestable, unverifiable, and unknowable cause.

Because OJ Simpson was not found to be guilty, does that mean that we are certain that he is not guilty? For all we know, isn't it possible that he killed them and got away with it?
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10-08-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:44 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  By observation. Primitive people with no science have universally attributed forces of nature to supernatural beings. Modern science took hundreds of years of geniuses piggybacking on each other's achievements. No uneducated person is going to come up with it on his own. "Supernatural beings" is a much more plausible answer to the uneducated mind.

This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.
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10-08-2015, 11:48 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:46 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You can't conclude they did it without evidence and the probabilities remain as I state them.

A cause without evidence of it being linked in any way to the effect, is an untestable, unverifiable, and unknowable cause.

Because OJ Simpson was not found to be guilty, does that mean that we are certain that he is not guilty?

(I'll assume there was 0 evidence against him)

Without evidence linking him to it, it is not possible to conclude he did. The possibility therefore remains more likely he didn't until such time as proof positive of his guilt is found.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-08-2015, 11:48 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.

Early Neanderthal communities.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-08-2015, 11:49 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015 11:59 AM by Free.)
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.

Not all societies represent the views of all their individuals.

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10-08-2015, 11:50 AM
Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.

Why are you now trying to restrict it to societies by the way?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-08-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This is anecdotal and not all uneducated humans arrived at supernatural assumptions.

Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.

The Pirahã.

#sigh
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10-08-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Name one primitive society that is without religious beliefs. It's not "anecdotal" -- it's historical fact.

Why are you now trying to restrict it to societies by the way?

Because people generally live in societies. I am not claiming that every single individual would invent Gods. But historically, religion was pretty universal until science started providing better answers. In the middle of a thunderstorm, a primitive person wondering what's happening isn't going to sit down and derive Maxwell's equations. I can't see how this statement is at all controversial. People want to explain things, and science was not an available option until fairly recently. Before that, the best explanation was religion.
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10-08-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: Why I'm a Theist
(10-08-2015 11:48 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:46 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Because OJ Simpson was not found to be guilty, does that mean that we are certain that he is not guilty?

(I'll assume there was 0 evidence against him)

Without evidence linking him to it, it is not possible to conclude he did. The possibility therefore remains more likely he didn't until such time as proof positive of his guilt is found.

Wrong answer. People kill people and get away with it all the time. It is unreasonable to assume guilt without evidence, and it is also unreasonable to assume innocence without evidence. We see this in the legal system as well. We don't rule anyone out (assume innocence) of a murder case until they prove their innocence with an alibi.
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