Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
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28-10-2012, 03:45 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(25-10-2012 06:48 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Prisons are another great example.

There is a reality show called Bait Car that comes on every now and again on TV. I cant remember the network, as I don't watch much TV. Anyways, these cops go into poor neighborhoods and leave a specialized car as easy bait. Then they catch these poor desperate kids trying to steal said car, by using a kill switch.

Sounds like blatant entrapment to me, but hey what do I know? I am not a lawyer, and they probably can't afford a good enough one to fight it.


In many places cops can now also stop and frisk anyone they find suspicious. Only about 10% of these frisks ever turn up anything, usually minor quantities of drugs.

Sounds like a clear violation of illegal search and seizures, but again I am not a lawyer and these kids are too poor to get a decent one.


Anyways it costs the US govt around 30k a year to house a single prisoner. Also note that the # of non-violent offenders (like these kids stealing the bait car) in prison has drastically increased over the years. So why are they going after these poor non-violent kids? Simple, the prison system is now a corporate system. Being such, the aristocrats poor tons of money into lobbying to ensure they keep making money by putting poor innocent kids behind bars to be raped and tortured. Ahh the American Dream!

So the cops watch someone commit a crime and then arrested them? Oh the horror, how dare they do such a despicable thing?! I'm gonna commit suicide right now because of what the world is coming to! Oh wait, my mistake, it's actually a good idea. Has it ever occurred to you that if these "poor innocent kids" (aka CRIMINALS) weren't stealing the bait car they'd be off stealing some unlucky persons car? They'd probably steal quite a few as well as there's every chance they wouldn't be caught. Why in world would you think that is preferable?!

Onto the "search and seizures". I completely agree that drug laws are stupid, I'd legalise most, if not all, drugs if it were up to me. However, the drug laws are in place, and it's up to the police to enforce them. You realise that by saying that the drug war is pointless and so police shouldn't bother you're actually saying that police should only enforce laws they agree with? They'd be able to pick and choose which laws to follow based on entirely subjective principles. You really want that? And saying that they shouldn't search people is also stupid. It's clearly an effective method of policing, it finds some stuff but deters a whole load more. If you tell someone with illegal items that they will only be searched if they act suspiciously then they'll be far happier to walk around with them than if they know they could be randomly searched at any time.

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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-10-2012, 11:52 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 11:58 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
They didn't watch someone commit a crime. Their would have been no crime, if they had not parked a new car with the keys in it.

Also note I am not blaming the police. None of this is really their idea....
Wasn't there a police chief who refused to evict people from their homes for the banks? That was a great police chief. So yes, in rare situations like that I wouldn't care if that happened.

You are arguing for the enforcement of the justice system, when the highest system of all, the constitution, is being violated.
Nice logic....
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29-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Re: RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(29-10-2012 11:52 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  They didn't watch someone commit a crime. Their would have been no crime, if they had not parked a new car with the keys in it.

Also note I am not blaming the police. None of this is really their idea....
Wasn't there a police chief who refused to evict people from their homes for the banks? That was a great police chief. So yes, in rare situations like that I wouldn't care if that happened.

They do the same thing in some ways with,to catch a predator. Those guys wouldn't go to the,house if the cop pretending do be a young teen wasn't leading them on. Do you have the same qualms for putting them in prison?

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30-10-2012, 12:02 AM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
Aren't those kids on the internet agreeing to have sex with strangers? None of my business... If those kids are that fucking stupid, better to weed them out now and reduce the surplus population.

Under the law those guys, I assume most are guys as I have not watched the show, are victims as well. They were entrapped.

PS: What the fuck do they arrest those guys for anyways? They obviously didn't let them commit any type of crime.
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30-10-2012, 03:39 AM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
wow.
This forum get's dumber and dumber..

The people that commit these crimes would commit them anyway. That's the whole point, to catch them in the act to prevent it from happening to people.
Better a bait car be stolen by a car thief then some little old ladies car.
I really fail to see how the constitution is being violated. NOBODY forces them into that car. NOBODY forces them to turn the key and drive away. You have three options.
1) Do nothing
2) Call cops and report that some guy left his car keys
3) Steal the car

Only one get's you in prison.
You should be thankful that cops are making the streets safer.
What, you get nabbed by one of these bait cars or something? you seem to be so against it.

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30-10-2012, 08:57 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(30-10-2012 03:39 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  wow.
This forum get's dumber and dumber..

The people that commit these crimes would commit them anyway. That's the whole point, to catch them in the act to prevent it from happening to people.
Better a bait car be stolen by a car thief then some little old ladies car.
I really fail to see how the constitution is being violated. NOBODY forces them into that car. NOBODY forces them to turn the key and drive away. You have three options.
1) Do nothing
2) Call cops and report that some guy left his car keys
3) Steal the car

Only one get's you in prison.
You should be thankful that cops are making the streets safer.
What, you get nabbed by one of these bait cars or something? you seem to be so against it.

I'd give it up earmuffs. Some people have this fucked-up idea that we should only catch a criminal if we have their consent, and we should never be dishonest with career liars, that would by unfair.

My Dad's like that (and most of the UK actually). We had this big thing in the UK a few years back because when the police took DNA samples from suspects they kept them rather than destroy them if the person was innocent. What the fuck is wrong with the police keeping DNA samples is beyond me. The only reasons I could get out of people was "information can be misused" (which may be true if they have your credit card details, can't really steal your identity with a DNA sample though), and "it's the principle" (which is so stupid I'm not gonna waste time debunking). Point is, the world is full of idiots who simply hate the idea of the law being enforced, either because they are so paranoid that they think the entire law enforcement system was set up to ruin their life, they don't like authority, or they don't appreciate what it's like being the victim of crime and when they find out they change their tune. I think certain people in this thread fall under that category.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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30-10-2012, 11:09 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(30-10-2012 08:57 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(30-10-2012 03:39 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  wow.
This forum get's dumber and dumber..

The people that commit these crimes would commit them anyway. That's the whole point, to catch them in the act to prevent it from happening to people.
Better a bait car be stolen by a car thief then some little old ladies car.
I really fail to see how the constitution is being violated. NOBODY forces them into that car. NOBODY forces them to turn the key and drive away. You have three options.
1) Do nothing
2) Call cops and report that some guy left his car keys
3) Steal the car

Only one get's you in prison.
You should be thankful that cops are making the streets safer.
What, you get nabbed by one of these bait cars or something? you seem to be so against it.

I'd give it up earmuffs. Some people have this fucked-up idea that we should only catch a criminal if we have their consent, and we should never be dishonest with career liars, that would by unfair.

My Dad's like that (and most of the UK actually). We had this big thing in the UK a few years back because when the police took DNA samples from suspects they kept them rather than destroy them if the person was innocent. What the fuck is wrong with the police keeping DNA samples is beyond me. The only reasons I could get out of people was "information can be misused" (which may be true if they have your credit card details, can't really steal your identity with a DNA sample though), and "it's the principle" (which is so stupid I'm not gonna waste time debunking). Point is, the world is full of idiots who simply hate the idea of the law being enforced, either because they are so paranoid that they think the entire law enforcement system was set up to ruin their life, they don't like authority, or they don't appreciate what it's like being the victim of crime and when they find out they change their tune. I think certain people in this thread fall under that category.

Oh god yes this drives me up the wall, when people complain that police have information on them.
Dark Light was complaining about income tax because it means the government gets all this information on you. (which they use to help them to better govern the country if they know the population, demographics/age etc.. all that stuff).
Why?
Because he doesn't like the idea that the government has info on him.
It's the exact same with criminal things, dna fingerprints etc.. People are so against it but NOBODY can give a valid reason to why, all you get is "just cause" or "I value my privacy". It's like there is a difference between someone going through your shit or browsing your history on your web browser, and someone with generic information on 300million people. It's like, you're not that special that they're going to abuse this information. The only reason why they'd pick you in regards to this information is if you were doing something you weren't.

People just don't think it. Like, there was HUGE uproar about the suggestion that the police get DNA off babies when they're born or everyone gives DNA etc..
Breech of my privacy blah blah blah People don't think WHY they do that.
If giving my DNA means keep criminals off the street, I way swob away. Think about it, someone get's raped. The police then get his DNA, they are able to match it to the data base and make an arrest. Say that database wasn't there, what use is collecting DNA?? That guy then rapes again, and then again etc.. etc..
Think of how many times police have had serial killer DNA but nothing to match it against.
Repeat offending could be stopped dead in its tracks with a DNA database.

We want the cops to protect us but are unwilling to cooperate, it's fucking ridiculous.

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31-10-2012, 07:00 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(30-10-2012 08:57 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I'd give it up earmuffs. Some people have this fucked-up idea that we should only catch a criminal if we have their consent, and we should never be dishonest with career liars, that would by unfair.

My Dad's like that (and most of the UK actually). We had this big thing in the UK a few years back because when the police took DNA samples from suspects they kept them rather than destroy them if the person was innocent. What the fuck is wrong with the police keeping DNA samples is beyond me. The only reasons I could get out of people was "information can be misused" (which may be true if they have your credit card details, can't really steal your identity with a DNA sample though), and "it's the principle" (which is so stupid I'm not gonna waste time debunking). Point is, the world is full of idiots who simply hate the idea of the law being enforced, either because they are so paranoid that they think the entire law enforcement system was set up to ruin their life, they don't like authority, or they don't appreciate what it's like being the victim of crime and when they find out they change their tune. I think certain people in this thread fall under that category.

The entrapment complaint was utter BS. The DNA issue you describe is more problematic in my view. You just need to have a more creative imagination on how the information can be used. It's not an identity theft issue so much as a privacy issue. DNA can reveal all sorts of private medical information about you that could be misused. Here are some possibilities:

--an employer making hiring decisions by using DNA info they have to determine if you are susceptible to Huntington's disease. they don't want to deal with a manager who might become unstable, so they decide you're not worth the risk.

--a health insurance company making decisions to offer coverage based upon your risk for certain cancers.

--have socialized medicine? How about a government deciding that you're going to die early from heart disease anyway because you are genetically predisposed and untreatable, so why bother with that kidney replacement when little Billy will live longer with that bone marrow transplant because he has a statistically longer number of years left from his treatment. Wouldn't the greater good be served by declining services to people who won't benefit as much in added lifespan?

--a life insurance company deciding not to pay out a benefit because they discover from your DNA that you are predisposed to the disease that took your life and decide you had a pre-existing condition that disqualifies you from coverage.

--an innocent, but adopted individual becomes identified as offspring to a serial killer....runs in the family maybe? Let's take a closer look at this guy because his father was a psychopath too.


If you happen to commit a crime and are convicted, a loss of privacy for the convict may be in the public's interest because you have proven yourself to be a danger to others. Innocent people's privacy should otherwise be protected.
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31-10-2012, 07:34 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(31-10-2012 07:00 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-10-2012 08:57 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I'd give it up earmuffs. Some people have this fucked-up idea that we should only catch a criminal if we have their consent, and we should never be dishonest with career liars, that would by unfair.

My Dad's like that (and most of the UK actually). We had this big thing in the UK a few years back because when the police took DNA samples from suspects they kept them rather than destroy them if the person was innocent. What the fuck is wrong with the police keeping DNA samples is beyond me. The only reasons I could get out of people was "information can be misused" (which may be true if they have your credit card details, can't really steal your identity with a DNA sample though), and "it's the principle" (which is so stupid I'm not gonna waste time debunking). Point is, the world is full of idiots who simply hate the idea of the law being enforced, either because they are so paranoid that they think the entire law enforcement system was set up to ruin their life, they don't like authority, or they don't appreciate what it's like being the victim of crime and when they find out they change their tune. I think certain people in this thread fall under that category.

The entrapment complaint was utter BS. The DNA issue you describe is more problematic in my view. You just need to have a more creative imagination on how the information can be used. It's not an identity theft issue so much as a privacy issue. DNA can reveal all sorts of private medical information about you that could be misused. Here are some possibilities:

--an employer making hiring decisions by using DNA info they have to determine if you are susceptible to Huntington's disease. they don't want to deal with a manager who might become unstable, so they decide you're not worth the risk.

--a health insurance company making decisions to offer coverage based upon your risk for certain cancers.

--have socialized medicine? How about a government deciding that you're going to die early from heart disease anyway because you are genetically predisposed and untreatable, so why bother with that kidney replacement when little Billy will live longer with that bone marrow transplant because he has a statistically longer number of years left from his treatment. Wouldn't the greater good be served by declining services to people who won't benefit as much in added lifespan?

--a life insurance company deciding not to pay out a benefit because they discover from your DNA that you are predisposed to the disease that took your life and decide you had a pre-existing condition that disqualifies you from coverage.

--an innocent, but adopted individual becomes identified as offspring to a serial killer....runs in the family maybe? Let's take a closer look at this guy because his father was a psychopath too.


If you happen to commit a crime and are convicted, a loss of privacy for the convict may be in the public's interest because you have proven yourself to be a danger to others. Innocent people's privacy should otherwise be protected.

Employer is going to waste time on something that trivial? Its not hard to train someone else...
Life insurance - automatically bad, so who gives a shit.
Death panels - ROFL! Stop watching Faux News
Son of a psychopath - I am not sure there is anything to this....sounds like reaching to me.

Ohh wait thats all your pathetic examples are....
Everyone should have their DNA and finger prints on file imo.
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31-10-2012, 07:52 PM
RE: Why Is Being Successful A Crime?
(31-10-2012 07:34 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 07:00 PM)BryanS Wrote:  The entrapment complaint was utter BS. The DNA issue you describe is more problematic in my view. You just need to have a more creative imagination on how the information can be used. It's not an identity theft issue so much as a privacy issue. DNA can reveal all sorts of private medical information about you that could be misused. Here are some possibilities:

--an employer making hiring decisions by using DNA info they have to determine if you are susceptible to Huntington's disease. they don't want to deal with a manager who might become unstable, so they decide you're not worth the risk.

--a health insurance company making decisions to offer coverage based upon your risk for certain cancers.

--have socialized medicine? How about a government deciding that you're going to die early from heart disease anyway because you are genetically predisposed and untreatable, so why bother with that kidney replacement when little Billy will live longer with that bone marrow transplant because he has a statistically longer number of years left from his treatment. Wouldn't the greater good be served by declining services to people who won't benefit as much in added lifespan?

--a life insurance company deciding not to pay out a benefit because they discover from your DNA that you are predisposed to the disease that took your life and decide you had a pre-existing condition that disqualifies you from coverage.

--an innocent, but adopted individual becomes identified as offspring to a serial killer....runs in the family maybe? Let's take a closer look at this guy because his father was a psychopath too.


If you happen to commit a crime and are convicted, a loss of privacy for the convict may be in the public's interest because you have proven yourself to be a danger to others. Innocent people's privacy should otherwise be protected.

Employer is going to waste time on something that trivial? Its not hard to train someone else...
Life insurance - automatically bad, so who gives a shit.
Death panels - ROFL! Stop watching Faux News
Son of a psychopath - I am not sure there is anything to this....sounds like reaching to me.

Ohh wait thats all your pathetic examples are....
Everyone should have their DNA and finger prints on file imo.



I see. You're really concerned about entrapment, but have no problem with medical information being available to the government. That's a curious combination of opinions.

I call troll!
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