Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
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29-07-2014, 04:03 PM
Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
Monarchies derive their moral legitimacy from the divine right of kings. It is impossible to prove that there is a god, let alone one who appoints kings. So from the very onset you cannot prove a monarchist government has any sort of moral legitimacy.

In a republic the government derives its moral legitimacy from popular sovereignty (the government existing and ruling by consent of the people). Popular sovereignty is proven every time a proper election is held. A republican government has provable moral sovereignty, and thus citizens have a moral obligation to follow its laws. No such obligation exists in a monarchy unless one believes in the divine right of kings.
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29-07-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
Quote: A republican government has provable moral sovereignty, and thus citizens have a moral obligation to follow its laws.
I'll follow the law if you're strong enough to enforce it or if I woulda done that shit anyway. Otherwise, fuck morals Smile

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-07-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
1. No atheist would support the idea that a ruling family is divine, or divinely privileged.

2. Who should be the High King in Skyrim? The Jarl of Whiterun? Ulfric Stormcloak? Do any of the Jarl's receive direct support from the 9?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-07-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 04:09 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  1. No atheist would support the idea that a ruling family is divine, or divinely privileged.

2. Who should be the High King in Skyrim? The Jarl of Whiterun? Ulfric Stormcloak? Do any of the Jarl's receive direct support from the 9?

I made an Elder Scrolls topic and there is also a Skyrim topic if you want to discuss that, but here it is off topic.
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29-07-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
Aww, rejected. </3

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-07-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 04:23 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Aww, rejected. </3

You're off topic again, asshole. Frikken immigrants. Angry Can't even post in the right forum thread.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-07-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 04:03 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  Monarchies derive their moral legitimacy from the divine right of kings. It is impossible to prove that there is a god, let alone one who appoints kings. So from the very onset you cannot prove a monarchist government has any sort of moral legitimacy.

While a broad and over arching brush you paint your opening comment with, it does not -however- deal with the actual histories nor social evolution of said public figures (Not to mention females as Queens of head of state)

(29-07-2014 04:03 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  In a republic the government derives its moral legitimacy from popular sovereignty (the government existing and ruling by consent of the people). Popular sovereignty is proven every time a proper election is held. A republican government has provable moral sovereignty, and thus citizens have a moral obligation to follow its laws.

Indeed, as long as one can guarantee honest, open, fair, unbiased, uncorrupted etc behavior in determining both the system for electing said figures as well as the system to actually empower/enable said figures into their positions.

On a side note, nothing stops a said republic from falling to a coup d'état and an Emperor stepping into power. No divine powers need apply.

(29-07-2014 04:03 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  No such obligation exists in a monarchy unless one believes in the divine right of kings.

There's some fancy term which my sleep addled brain can not , for the life of me think of at the moment, for disregarding this last part of the post. Non-sequitur ? Straw-man ?

Also, of course one supports the local natives supports the Jarls. Of course, then trying to prevent a single Jarl from becoming totally dominant and effectively creating their own 'King-ship' leads one back to the similar potential problem for Republics.

Much cheers to all.
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29-07-2014, 05:06 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 04:23 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Aww, rejected. </3

Laughat



Regarding monarchs, you want to speak about republics deriving power from the masses but so do monarchies. The Queen is the Queen because the people allow her to be. Louis XVI (If I got the right dude here) lost power because the people did not allow him to keep it. Hell, even the Queen lost pretty much all her power because the people (well... the Baron's..) decided somewhere along the line that the King/Queen shouldn't have X amount of power.

The point is that yes the people vote in Presidents or Prime Ministers, but the people also allow the royal's to stay in place because of public opinion. Therefore their power is also derived from the people.
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29-07-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 05:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 04:23 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Aww, rejected. </3

Laughat



Regarding monarchs, you want to speak about republics deriving power from the masses but so do monarchies. The Queen is the Queen because the people allow her to be. Louis XVI (If I got the right dude here) lost power because the people did not allow him to keep it. Hell, even the Queen lost pretty much all her power because the people (well... the Baron's..) decided somewhere along the line that the King/Queen shouldn't have X amount of power.

The point is that yes the people vote in Presidents or Prime Ministers, but the people also allow the royal's to stay in place because of public opinion. Therefore their power is also derived from the people.

Then they should run in elections every few years to prove it.
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29-07-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Why Monarchies have No Moral Legitimacy
(29-07-2014 05:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Regarding monarchs, you want to speak about republics deriving power from the masses but so do monarchies. The Queen is the Queen because the people allow her to be. Louis XVI (If I got the right dude here) lost power because the people did not allow him to keep it. Hell, even the Queen lost pretty much all her power because the people (well... the Baron's..) decided somewhere along the line that the King/Queen shouldn't have X amount of power.

The point is that yes the people vote in Presidents or Prime Ministers, but the people also allow the royal's to stay in place because of public opinion. Therefore their power is also derived from the people.

Yes, but while a democratically run constitutional monarchy is a perfectly legitimate option and works just fine for hundreds of millions of people, there are certain... ideologues, shall we say, who seem to work themselves up into a frothing lather over the idea.

Here's a relevant question for them:
What is your opinion on individuals inheriting massively disproportionate shares of wealth and power in life?

... this is my signature!
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