Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
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19-09-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, it’s how pedantic your argument is. I’ve given numerous reasons why suffering demonstrates his love and goodness and not his cruelty. We can address just one for now: Is there a better way to warn of Hell or hope of Heaven then suffering? And you can’t say “literature, witnesses Christians and information,” because suffering will make an atheist a Christian, often faster than the “billboards” you’ve requested from your imaginary sky god.

Stepping back further, is there a better way, rather than eternal punishment, for not picking the right god? After all, what is the point of punishment if the punishment never ends? I say yes.

(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I certainly can admit that, if there is no free will and he is the god that KC says is the correct, Reformed view. That god would predetermine people to Hell!

Our fates are predetermined if you believe in an omniscient god. That's the 'gotcha' of omniscience. No matter what choice you think it is you've made, it was already known. That implies your fate cannot be changed; the script has already been written.

(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I don’t wish to bore you but you’ve asked for answers. Would you like 3 dozen more reasons why suffering is GOOD and shows the LOVE of God?

You haven't given reasons. You've given examples where suffering is good and, notably, avoided examples where it is not. Even if only 1% of suffering is pointless, its very existence calls into question the nature of your god. I will tip my hat to any Christian who says "my god is emotional, makes rather large mistakes, is not all powerful, and has a slight itch for sadistic behavior, but most of the time is nice." I have yet to hear those words.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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19-09-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 01:50 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(18-09-2013 03:12 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  I doubt it's neurological...too much LSD in the 70's you see. I fried most of my neurons.

Choice? Nope, I came to this thread each and every time with the wide eyed wonder of a new born babe, no preconception, I was determined to be amazed...of course thinking of a new born baby made me hungry and I probably lost track. Could that be it?Consider

Freewill? Nope, I'm a tool of Satan you see, the fact that I don't believe in him doesn't matter, too many religious people say we do, so it must be true.

Who do I see for a refund?Drinking Beverage

Me. Because you're wasting my time and others' time on a thread I started, and you've contributed nothing via logic, philosophy, inductive reasoning or empirical evidence.

You're just mocking with nothing to say, and in a community of teed off atheists and agnostics, that's saying something.

Sorry if I haven't been serious enough for you but I have watched you repeatedly try to defend an undefensible position. It gets old after a while you see, the same old justifications for your butt hurt sky daddy.Drinking Beverage

Suffering is not good. If your deity thinks it is, then he doesn't deserve worship he deserves to shunned. If he set up the world but had to do so with this twisted little scenario so many believe in the he's a moron on top of being disgusting.

If I thought for a second we could have a real conversation you'd have my full attention.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
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19-09-2013, 02:31 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Because I’ve presented this thread to a number of Christians who all notice you ALWAYS leave off, “just, vengeful, jealous, concerned, parental, intervening,” and etc. for god. ALWAYS.

Why is your imaginary sky god loving but never good or just? I thought he could do or be ANYTHING?

I've said multiple times that a god that gives a fuck is incompatible. That means, if you took the time to pull your head out of you ass to notice, that an not-benevolent god would be perfectly fine with allowing suffering. This does however fly in the face of mainstream Christology. The problem of Evil is not a problem for an asshole god, but most Christains can not or will not even contemplate such a thing for their god.

Okay so do you now admit that based on our universe, that if a god does exist, he's not a benevolent one? Because this is what I've been saying all along; that any god responsible for this universe, and if in possession of the limitless powers of creation, is a fucking asshole.

(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But then it wouldn’t be THIS ONE as you wrote, and you’d have the problem of infinite regression I’ve pointed out here many times now. If it was a little better, you’d say, “it needs to be better”, and etc.

That doesn't answer the question dickwad. The only universe we have to judge against your god claim is the one we have now, and the universe we have now is incompatible with an all powerful benevolent god. See above.


(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote: And in light of all your god could have done but did not, you want to posit that not only does he exists, but also that he's good and cares for us? What fucking evidence do you have for that? Why on fucking Earth should I believe you and adopt your position? You're entire argument boils down to 'atheist can't prove that my god doesn't have a reason to allow suffering, therefore god exists and is good'. That is how fucking asinine your reasoning is.

No, it’s how pedantic your argument is. I’ve given numerous reasons why suffering demonstrates his love and goodness and not his cruelty. We can address just one for now:

Is there a better way to warn of Hell or hope of Heaven then suffering? And you can’t say “literature, witnesses Christians and information,” because suffering will make an atheist a Christian, often faster than the “billboards” you’ve requested from your imaginary sky god.


1 - Not making Hell, as a place of infinite punishment is the exact opposite of what we would expect from a remotely intelligent being; let alone an all-knowing, all-powerful, and (as many claim) all-benevolent god. Also unless you can prove Hell actually exists, you can't claim warning us away from it as a defense for suffering in this universe, because Hell hasn't been proven to exist in this universe. Suffering cannot be justified in avoiding Hell the way you are attempting, if Hell is simply a lie.

2 - You're logic is broken. You cannot make the jump from 'I am suffering from starvation/rape/injury/disease/malnutrition/whatever' to 'therefore a god exists and he cares about me'. If you think that jump makes sense, we'd all be better off if you let your house plants type your forum posts from now on.

3 - Any warning would not be necessary, as your creator god could have made knowledge of his existence/rules/expectations innate to us, but he choose not too. Funny how he seemingly 'choose' to make all of these problem in believing in the one true god of all of creation, seems like he fucked the pooch on that one. That you can't think of better solution to avoiding Hell than 'plague/famine/disease/war/rape/suffering', once again, speak of your staggering lack of imagination. We have to keep coming back to this, you couldn't imagine your way out of an imaginary paper bag...



(19-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Your god could exist, but if he created this universe, then he's a capricious uncaring asshole; but you're not allowed to admit that are you?

I certainly can admit that, if there is no free will and he is the god that KC says is the correct, Reformed view. That god would predetermine people to Hell!

I don’t wish to bore you but you’ve asked for answers. Would you like 3 dozen more reasons why suffering is GOOD and shows the LOVE of God?

I don't need any more examples to further prove just how much of a fucking mental slave you are. You are a sick in the head, sad little man.

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19-09-2013, 02:36 PM
Re: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Pj... Your examples of "suffering is good" require there to be a creation of Worse suffering. (or something worse than suffering)

Your hell warning example is essentially: some suffering is a good because it can warn you from his worse suffering.

Notice this, God created that hell.. Him creating a path to avoid hell isn't an example of being good or need of suffering. THERE IS NO NEED FOR HELL.

You say you have examples that would bore... Maybe using examples that explain better than just arguing in denial for tons of posts.

Let me ask you, do you have an example where God making suffering is good, which doesn't require something God created that's worse to be involved?

Not suffering to overcome pain or suffering to learn to avoid hell... Maybe if you could, you would actually have a point.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-09-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 02:31 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I don't need any more examples to further prove just how much of a fucking mental slave you are. You are a sick in the head, sad little man.

A believer in divine command morality is but a divine command away from atrocity.

God save us from false positives.

Undecided

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20-09-2013, 01:09 AM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 02:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 02:31 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I don't need any more examples to further prove just how much of a fucking mental slave you are. You are a sick in the head, sad little man.

A believer in divine command morality is but a divine command away from atrocity.

God save us from false positives.

Undecided

Fuck me, I should have posted this...

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23-09-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
GN:

Quote:Stepping back further, is there a better way, rather than eternal punishment, for not picking the right god? After all, what is the point of punishment if the punishment never ends? I say yes.

Stepping back further, is there a better way, rather than eternal punishment, for not having forgiveness for sins? {Fixed}

Quote: Our fates are predetermined if you believe in an omniscient god. That's the 'gotcha' of omniscience. No matter what choice you think it is you've made, it was already known. That implies your fate cannot be changed; the script has already been written.

In that sense, yes. God chose to create someone knowing they will pick not just “heaven or hell” but one or the other. Yes. And? Not a problem if Hell is a reasonable punishment or Heaven a reasonable reward.

Quote: You haven't given reasons. You've given examples where suffering is good and, notably, avoided examples where it is not. Even if only 1% of suffering is pointless, its very existence calls into question the nature of your god. I will tip my hat to any Christian who says "my god is emotional, makes rather large mistakes, is not all powerful, and has a slight itch for sadistic behavior, but most of the time is nice." I have yet to hear those words.

But those mistakes belie both omnipotence and omniscience so my dogma is pertinent, not moot.
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23-09-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(19-09-2013 02:22 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 01:50 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Me. Because you're wasting my time and others' time on a thread I started, and you've contributed nothing via logic, philosophy, inductive reasoning or empirical evidence.

You're just mocking with nothing to say, and in a community of teed off atheists and agnostics, that's saying something.

Sorry if I haven't been serious enough for you but I have watched you repeatedly try to defend an undefensible position. It gets old after a while you see, the same old justifications for your butt hurt sky daddy.Drinking Beverage

Suffering is not good. If your deity thinks it is, then he doesn't deserve worship he deserves to shunned. If he set up the world but had to do so with this twisted little scenario so many believe in the he's a moron on top of being disgusting.

If I thought for a second we could have a real conversation you'd have my full attention.

What informs your conscience that suffering isn't for good or the greater good that is NOT from "feelings"? Your positivist ethic is doomed to make "doesn't hurt someone" an ethic based on feelings.
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23-09-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Do unto others the way you would have others do unto you.


Your god needs to read that.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-09-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Do you reckon maybe God has a MetaGod... maybe that's why he's so dumb ? He spends all his intelligence and creativity trying to satisfy some super-being's arbitrary rules for his morality...
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