Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
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28-08-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: See, this totally goes against my experience. At my college, the druggies got all sorts of laughs poking fun at the angry christ dudes.

.... oddly enough, they WERE all dudes.

The druggies or the preachers? I know some women preachers. Some of them have preached at over 200 campuses!
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28-08-2013, 02:00 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: You didn't answer me.

I sincerely apologize. What question(s) did I not answer? It is my fault.
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28-08-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(28-08-2013 01:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Yup. Nothing we can do it about though, unless we start the “Thinking, Courteous Atheist” forum! What a shame.

It won't help. You will be the same ignoramus. You will convert no one there either.
You have nothing to offer, except old, outdated, hackneyed platitudes.

Sho fly.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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28-08-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: And called it. Danced around it without ever giving anything close to a coherent answer to religions major achilles heel. Plus we got to goodwins law as well.

Why does a supposedly loving all powerful god allow evil? Because he is incapable of preventing it or because he is the source of evil? Incompetent or evil take your choice either way not worthy of worship.

Wow, your box is shrinking, not expanding. I’ll repeat myself for perhaps the fifth time this week on this point:

Your tired, archaic conundrum of a loving, all-powerful god has completely excerpted any concept of justice or righteous suffering or human free will within it.

There is love on earth and there is justice. How long will you measure with an unbalanced scale?
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28-08-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: I see that things like degenerative disease, mental illness, birth defects, miscarriages etc. that cause extensive emotional and physical suffering are simply "homework."

Classy response as always.

Again, having seen my own children suffer, and my family members ill and dying, I have the right to take a deep breath, take a step back and look at the “problem of evil” from a more logical place than simply blaming god. I’ve noticed, for one thing, that NONE OF YOU BLAME ANYTHING ON ANYONE BUT GOD.

I mean, let’s blame god that a smoker has emphysema. (We can blame the tobacco company in court, but not god). Let’s blame god that a drunk driver killed two kids. That’s um, insanity, and if you used that argument in court and you were the drunk driver, that “god made you do it” you’d be put in the insane asylum.

Of course, philosophers can and do come up with insane arguments. Let’s get real!
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28-08-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: I don't suffer comments like yours under the guise of "free discourse." Never. Never, ever, ever, will I allow someone to spew the morally twisted logic of religion in my presence. Free discourse does not absolve you of responsibility for your comments.

Do you think it’s a high horse to say “I don’t suffer you” as well as ironic since this is a thread discussing suffering itself?

Isn’t it really, “I enjoy spewing at you because I have no self-control and cannot conduct a reasonable discussion?” May I suggest instead of cursing and name calling, you take a little break from the PC and come back after you’ve cooled down a bit?

Quote: Quote my line that says 'hate speech'. I'm waiting... Never said that. Trying to attribute that comment to me is your attempt to make yourself a martyr. All it did was succeed in making you a jerk.

I call it like I see it. You're morally offensive. Go ahead and call me names. Call me whiny. Call me five years old. Does that work for you in your social circles? Is that a learned behavior that you were hoping would get you results here? It's not going to work. It's not going to buy you a free pass. I'm going to call you out every time you cross that line.

It’s hate speech (and I use that term liberally, I’m not asking the mods to censor you or anything) to say my comments on rape are offensive. It disgusts me morally to hear you say that about a fellow intellectual.

And yes, you do come off like a five-year-old who is whining because they are losing an argument.

Quote: No, it's your problem. You came to an atheist site. You brought your loving god problems with you. Every time you try and dump them on us, we're going to pick them up and hand them back to you. Still haven't figured that out, have you?

What I’ve learned for one thing to date is not one person addressed my syllogisms which derived from a naturalist’s basis and a naturalist’s perspective. You are the one upset about a “loving god”. All we need do is change your resolution to “god is just and not loving at all” and then we have reasons to say we don’t suffer enough!
Quote: Your comments aren't truth. Please. You're getting eaten alive in every thread and your best defense is to simply change the subject or avoid direct answers.

I haven’t played a card like yours above in a long time on this forum (I think, I hope!). Isn’t that what a troll is—someone who calls taunts but offers no substance? I’m thinking about posts, even as spurious as yours and offering logical puzzles to ponder, questions, succor, hope and ideas. Why are you afraid of participating in the marketplace of ideas as a gentleman?

If you think I’m that dangerous to you intellectually, than yes, you are acting like a five-year-old! Would you put Adolf Hitler on “ignore”, too! A lot of Germans did and Germans and others died horribly as one result. If you think my ideas are dangerous I would commend you for combating them with ideas of your own!

Try it, you might like it!
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28-08-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: I read your examples, and most of the suffering serves no purpose at all. If pain is there to warn you, it can turn off after it got your attention. None of what you wrote justifies the fact that your god watches people in pain as he is omnipresent, and refuses to help even though he is omnipotent.

Having a terminal illness means it's short? I don't think you have seen enough actual human suffering or you wouldn't utter such nonsense.

Whoa, there! Saying “if pain is there to warn you” like that’s the only meaning you can find in pain or you can find in my examples of pain is akin to saying “love makes you feel good” or “humor can blow off a little steam”; it’s incredibly one-dimensional.

I have seen my own family die while I watched and it does suck, no doubt. Listen, if I had a smoking gun “answer” to suffering, I would have used it long ago on this forum, right?

I’ll ask you again, are you saying that NO suffering has ANY meaning that is not the cause of more pain? If that is true, we can press on to resolve the problem of god and love thing next.

Is there anyone on this forum besides a Christian who will admit that SOME suffering is vital or SOME suffering has value and meaning for our lives?
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28-08-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(28-08-2013 02:05 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Again, having seen my own children suffer, and my family members ill and dying, I have the right to take a deep breath, take a step back and look at the “problem of evil” from a more logical place than simply blaming god. I’ve noticed, for one thing, that NONE OF YOU BLAME ANYTHING ON ANYONE BUT GOD.

I mean, let’s blame god that a smoker has emphysema. (We can blame the tobacco company in court, but not god). Let’s blame god that a drunk driver killed two kids. That’s um, insanity, and if you used that argument in court and you were the drunk driver, that “god made you do it” you’d be put in the insane asylum.

Of course, philosophers can and do come up with insane arguments. Let’s get real!

Here are the things I listed:
1. Mental illness;
2. Birth defects;
3. Miscarriages;

These things are beyond our control.

Here are the things you listed:
1. Emphysema brought on by smoking;
2. Death via drunk driving;

These things are not beyond our control.

Do you see a difference?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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28-08-2013, 02:21 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
(28-08-2013 02:02 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote: And called it. Danced around it without ever giving anything close to a coherent answer to religions major achilles heel. Plus we got to goodwins law as well.

Why does a supposedly loving all powerful god allow evil? Because he is incapable of preventing it or because he is the source of evil? Incompetent or evil take your choice either way not worthy of worship.

Wow, your box is shrinking, not expanding. I’ll repeat myself for perhaps the fifth time this week on this point:

Your tired, archaic conundrum of a loving, all-powerful god has completely excerpted any concept of justice or righteous suffering or human free will within it.

There is love on earth and there is justice. How long will you measure with an unbalanced scale?

Really there is Justice? I would say such is an unreachable ideal. Millions of children suffering for no reason is justice when, if what you claim is true, there is a being that could end it? No, my sad little apologist there can be no justice in a world with suffering when it is well within the scope to relieve it. So again I pose this question, knowing full well you will never even attempt to answer it honestly. Is your God evil or incompetent?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-08-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: Why Must Children Suffer? [The Astonishing Sequel]
Quote: PleasyJebus,

Such an incredibly lame attempt to explain away the problem of suffering, and what you people call "evil".

Explain to me how an innocent 7 year old dying of AML, (Acute Myelogenous Leukemia), walking down the hall, pushing his IV pole, chemo running, holding on to his teddy bear, is in any way part of the (necessary) "plan" of a loving deity.

Please also stop with your crap about "free will". No omniscient deity is *free* to do what she knew "before", she was NOT going to do. She is constrained. That means she is no god.

You are so wound up in your pathetic metaphors, and lame apologetic attempts to explain away your Christian garbage, you can't see straight. But again, thanks again. It is refreshing to see, that there really is nothing other than "that man behind the curtain". And Christian fundies have nothing but nonsense to offer humanity with their ancient bankrupt metaphors, and meaningless drivel.

I’d be happy to explain it to you. And I’ll even do you a favor and lay aside free will for the moment to please you, pleasyBB.

The child’s disease pathology and duration in no way sums their life, any more than a gay man is identified solely by his sexuality or a Christian solely by his religion!

The child had joy at times and sorrow at other times, even while sick—that’s what children are like, the child is leaving this crappy place for a better place, the child was a little angel whose parents, even if they were apatheists to the point of neurasthenia, will say someday, “They weren’t with us long, but we’re glad we had them here for a while.”

Not to mention that if you’re a REAL atheist, pleasyBB, you’ll admit when the disease has run a full course and they’re dead, they cannot remember suffering anymore and it was all meaningless, not “bad”! Be consistent.

OR if you still hold onto your delusions here, remember this, someday you’re going to have kids. Will you avoid doing so because they MIGHT suffer from a disease, MAYBE?

Oops, I almost went to your free will again there. Sorry!
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