Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
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28-07-2013, 02:32 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(28-07-2013 02:29 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 01:36 AM)nach_in Wrote:  That depends on your definition of humanism. If you're talking about the classical, more restricted version, then some feminists will tell you that it's limited and that it offers a version of binary ethics based on patriarchal values.

As an example: gay marriage would be a humanist approach, give equal rights to everyone. Some feminists would say that regulating marriage by law defines a model of how relationships should be and impose a "right" way of living, which is a patriarchal way of doing things.

I stress SOME feminist, there're a LOT of different theories and waves of feminism, some are even very conservative, to the point of being racist, others are so radical that they're just mysandric anarchists... So take a pick Tongue

I though marriage was a legal process, so how could there not be laws regulating how that process works?

Marriage is a legal act and a legal institution, not a process. But some think that marriage shouldn't be regulated in any way

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28-07-2013, 03:15 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
If you take away the contents on the belief then feminism is the same as atheism in many ways.

You have people who through different circumstances feel that they are oppressed and so take on a certain viewpoint and attribute themselves with a "label"

I feel that human rights are being advocated, its just they are broken down into different denominations (feminism, atheism, race, sexuality etc)

What would you define as "human rights"?

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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28-07-2013, 03:31 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
I would define the best situation in which human rights were implemented perfectly as the state in which all people are treated based on merit and individual characteristics not gender or race. Also, any group of consenting adults would be able to enter into any kind of contract they wanted, no matter the type. On the other hand no one would be able to force anyone to do anything that the they hadn't consented to such as slavery. Finally, no minority would be downtrodden directly from the might of the majority, such as the rejection of free speech. I know that is extremely idealistic but these are the kinds of things I would like to see happen.

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28-07-2013, 03:31 AM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2013 03:34 AM by absols.)
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
the fact that you cant tolerate feminism while knowing what women endure for being the second class gender, but also sexually abused, say the hypocrite you are as a man that prone humans rights for everyone

what you say is not smthg said, smthg said is objectively right

you could keep repeating for hours how humans rights are precious, u just proved the opposite

it is obvious in all ur posts here that you despise women in general, that is why also you are meaning gays as humans, when gays by definition are hundred percent gender only

but ur despise for women i suspect is of ur pleasure to put what is up down

as u enjoy too giving rights of up to what is down

actually all what u care about is the sense of power you could get knowing that it is possible through evil ways, reversing the order of things existence to control and possess them

nothing exist but truth

so whatever idea about being human could b right in certain relative perspective, but reality is never of relative thing, while reality of being is hundred percent clear

if u mean being human then act according to ur idealistic end of your male body

only your body is truly present

that is why feminism is right, women that teach others how to defend themselves how to agress men how to look at them as inferiors worse even of what they are perceived by them, this is all very right for women bodies needs of strength

weakness of women is a fact done through generations of crimes against them, a woman raped is a broken individual forever, destruction of its own free positive sense of being present
any ugly shape that feminism prone is far more positive then what women look like now
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28-07-2013, 04:17 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(28-07-2013 01:28 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I will never refer to myself as a feminist. I will always refer myself as a humanist.

You can be a feminist and a misandrynist. You can be a feminist and a racist. Feminism only is one aspect of you, humanist covers feminism and more.

No, but there is nothing wrong with a person referring to themselves as one. They could very well be a humanist, but they are addressing the specific topic of gender equality (or the lack thereof in the United States) at that point in time. A feminist will say they are a feminist, but that should not mean that feminism is all they believe. We call ourselves atheists, but does not define us in our entirety.

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28-07-2013, 04:33 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
Seriously, fuck feminism.

I respect the old-school feminism, they actually had real shit to bitch about. But this modern day radical feminism bullshit? Sick of it, Sick of it infecting atheism (see: Atheism+) Sick of it ruining peoples jobs (See: Donglegate) Sick of it making men look like pigs just for asking for coffee (See: Elevatorgate) Seeing it try to shame me for being men. For acting in accordance with nature.

Most of the mild feminists are just humanists with a different name, which they just need to drop.
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28-07-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(28-07-2013 04:33 AM)DerekS Wrote:  Seriously, fuck feminism.

I respect the old-school feminism, they actually had real shit to bitch about. But this modern day radical feminism bullshit? Sick of it, Sick of it infecting atheism (see: Atheism+) Sick of it ruining peoples jobs (See: Donglegate) Sick of it making men look like pigs just for asking for coffee (See: Elevatorgate) Seeing it try to shame me for being men. For acting in accordance with nature.

Most of the mild feminists are just humanists with a different name, which they just need to drop.

No, no. Fuck militant feminism. We run the risk of having militant groups within any social movement, it's intrinsic. You don't think women have things to fight for? It wasn't until recently that they could fight on the front lines. They still don't have equal pay. Compared to other nations in the world, they have shit for maternity leave. You want to know why courts give women custody more often than not? There is still a false notion that raising the children is the woman's job. Bollocks to all of that.

Do I think that others deserve their rights? Yes. Do I think feminism should be abandoned? It depends on what type we are talking about. Mild feminists don't need to drop anything.

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28-07-2013, 05:31 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
acting in accordance with nature, wat kind of argument is that

bc it suits u to see how naturally ur condition of being is superior or above women bodies

a human is self conscious of being so never the being condition

when u think being naturally right, then you cant mean being part of humanity
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28-07-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(28-07-2013 04:56 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:33 AM)DerekS Wrote:  Seriously, fuck feminism.

I respect the old-school feminism, they actually had real shit to bitch about. But this modern day radical feminism bullshit? Sick of it, Sick of it infecting atheism (see: Atheism+) Sick of it ruining peoples jobs (See: Donglegate) Sick of it making men look like pigs just for asking for coffee (See: Elevatorgate) Seeing it try to shame me for being men. For acting in accordance with nature.

Most of the mild feminists are just humanists with a different name, which they just need to drop.

No, no. Fuck militant feminism. We run the risk of having militant groups within any social movement, it's intrinsic. You don't think women have things to fight for? It wasn't until recently that they could fight on the front lines. They still don't have equal pay. Compared to other nations in the world, they have shit for maternity leave. You want to know why courts give women custody more often than not? There is still a false notion that raising the children is the woman's job. Bollocks to all of that.

Do I think that others deserve their rights? Yes. Do I think feminism should be abandoned? It depends on what type we are talking about. Mild feminists don't need to drop anything.

Although you think feminism is not intrinsically counter productive, I ask you this. Are the "militant, borderline insane" women drawn to the feminist camp because they see an opportunity to be sexist toward men, or is it that once an advocate of the movement they are dogmatized into doing this: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-a...nferences/

I think the answer is both. Some crazy women feel the need to be extremely sexist toward men just like some men feel the need to be extremely sexist toward them. I think that if these women were left to their own devices and were stripped of the excuse label of feminism, they would not be able to do what they are now. It is almost like the excuse "you have to respect my religious views," only with the name feminism.

Also moderate feminism is just as bad to me as the militant feminists. They never stop complaining for equal pay and more privileges. Why is it not that employers can give whatever salary they want? Men have different characteristics then women do, there is no denying that the genders are not equal. I think that once we get into this endless battle for equal everything, down to the smallest of things, that there will never be an end, and since the populace is not united under the title "human rights" and instead caught up in "feminism and machismo" nothing will get done any time soon, because it is an endless war between sides instead of a conscious effort to make the world a better place.

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28-07-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
Ok, so lets drop all the fights against human trafficking for prostitution, lets drop all the family violence and violence against women, lets drop all the education efforts that try to reduce the risk of men becoming sex abusers, lets keep portraying women as bodies only meant for male sexual arousal and cleaning products consumers. Lets abandon the political debate on freedom of choice on women's own bodies...

All those problems are human rights problems yes, but not only that, they're human rights problems that arise from a discrimination against women.

Extremists are everywhere, even in atheism we have crazy people who want to go burn churches.


There's also a branch of feminism, called masculinism, is movement of men who did they reading and studying instead of just bitch about crazy women who want privileges, and they started to realize that sexism also affect men. Suicide rates, neurotic meltdowns, family abandonment, and a lot other stuff are far more frequent in men than in women, and this movements realized that in a big part those problems came from treating men in our societies as obligated to provide economic support and to be emotionally "strong" and sexually powerful.

When they can't live up to the expectations of a perfect men (a handful of men in the world can try to do that) they just collapse, thy loose their jobs, they kill themselves because they're not men enough. they can't keep up with the emotional requirements of having a family, or simply they can't keep an erection because their dicks should be bigger.
So sexism not only affect women, and feminism knows that, not the extreme stupid fundamentalist feminists, but those are a minority. Of course you wouldn't know they are because nobody cares to actually read a book about it.

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