Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
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29-07-2013, 08:38 PM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
Relevant?

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29-07-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
great comic is great Big Grin

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29-07-2013, 09:02 PM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(29-07-2013 08:15 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 07:05 PM)nach_in Wrote:  That woman is a moron, he clearly said that IF she WANTED she should be able to, I also think that if a man wants to stay at home he should be able to do that too. Freedom of choice and oportunities is the key

I think she was trying to make it seem like women and men have to do everything just as much as each other and be equal in every way, which Hitchens thinks is obviously bullshit based on what he said. Hitchens=ownage.

Yeah, that sound about right, or maybe she was purposefully misinterpreting Hitchens to make him look bad, which is not so easy and the pwnage was clear Tongue

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29-07-2013, 09:34 PM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(29-07-2013 09:00 PM)nach_in Wrote:  great comic is great Big Grin

Thanks, I was hoping to sleep tonightConfused They will haunt my dreams forever! No

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30-07-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?



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30-07-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(30-07-2013 07:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  


I would think that if you advocate men's and women's rights you are a humanist only. There is no reason to break it down into subsections that only muddy the waters and bring unwanted baggage to yourself. Rule of thumb, when you consider yourself an MRA and a feminist, supporting equal rights for both genders equally, you should probably say that you are a humanist. Breaking humanism down into subsections is ridiculous to me and the labels have become out of hand, creating more harm than good.

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30-07-2013, 10:17 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(30-07-2013 10:01 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(30-07-2013 07:32 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  


I would think that if you advocate men's and women's rights you are a humanist only. There is no reason to break it down into subsections that only muddy the waters and bring unwanted baggage to yourself. Rule of thumb, when you consider yourself an MRA and a feminist, supporting equal rights for both genders equally, you should probably say that you are a humanist. Breaking humanism down into subsections is ridiculous to me and the labels have become out of hand, creating more harm than good.

You are incredibly wrong about that. Focusing on a single focused issue is the best way to move society forward. Having a broad front means you get stymied on every obstacle, where as having a narrow focus (say womens suffrage) you handle the direct challenges and since equal rights (speaking in the long term here) are achieved only by pressing the issue but once movement on them has begun they tend to be self perpetuating however they require critical mass to achieve that self perpetuation.

The worst thing that can happen is to stop after achieving partial victory. Women are still paid less than men for equal work. They are charged more for health care and tend to receive fewer promotions. Women in America are still second class citizens though much less so than they were at the beginning of the last century. While I agree that anyone working for human rights should be in favor of universal equality (or risk being a hypocrite) the fact that most choose 1 thing to focus on is better than trying to do everything at once.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-07-2013, 10:28 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(28-07-2013 01:35 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 01:28 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I will never refer to myself as a feminist. I will always refer myself as a humanist.

You can be a feminist and a misandrynist. You can be a feminist and a racist. Feminism only is one aspect of you, humanist covers feminism and more.

Exactly how I feel, feminists seem to want men to pander to their needs and curtail their speech in their preferred manner. Remember this fucking fiasco? http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-a...nferences/

This woman actually thought she could monitor these two innocent guys' speech just because SHE didn't like their jokes. Probably one of the highest articles on my bullshit meter that I think I have ever read.

If you're judging all feminists on the basis of one or a few events, then there's clearly a need for more feminism in the world.
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30-07-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(30-07-2013 10:17 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-07-2013 10:01 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  I would think that if you advocate men's and women's rights you are a humanist only. There is no reason to break it down into subsections that only muddy the waters and bring unwanted baggage to yourself. Rule of thumb, when you consider yourself an MRA and a feminist, supporting equal rights for both genders equally, you should probably say that you are a humanist. Breaking humanism down into subsections is ridiculous to me and the labels have become out of hand, creating more harm than good.

You are incredibly wrong about that. Focusing on a single focused issue is the best way to move society forward. Having a broad front means you get stymied on every obstacle, where as having a narrow focus (say womens suffrage) you handle the direct challenges and since equal rights (speaking in the long term here) are achieved only by pressing the issue but once movement on them has begun they tend to be self perpetuating however they require critical mass to achieve that self perpetuation.

The worst thing that can happen is to stop after achieving partial victory. Women are still paid less than men for equal work. They are charged more for health care and tend to receive fewer promotions. Women in America are still second class citizens though much less so than they were at the beginning of the last century. While I agree that anyone working for human rights should be in favor of universal equality (or risk being a hypocrite) the fact that most choose 1 thing to focus on is better than trying to do everything at once.

No I think that once you pick a side, like feminism, it defeats the whole purpose of humanism. A person can advocate the equal rights of women and men at the same time just fine, why is that so difficult to do? Once you focus on men OR women I think that you simultaneously exclude the opposite sex, therefore not being a very good humanist.

Women are not second class citizens in America and those facts about the pay and promotions are way too broad because they go both ways, and that is the problem with feminism. Feminists only care about the women's side because they imagine way too broad of stereotypes, like the one about pay and promotions, at I think the detriment of men. Once you do that you are automatically being counterproductive and sexist.

I say the employer can give whatever salary he or she wants to their employees because it is their money and it is their promotions to give out not yours to whine about and demand. Non-abused women need to stop whining about pay and promotions because it isn't just them that don't get paid enough or don't get a promotion. For example, my dad got laid off by a very wealthy woman that just wanted to get wealthier and decided to screw half of her and her teams workforce. Stop with your stupid victim card and stand up for what you really believe in, be an MRA, a feminist, or a humanist but you cannot have a mix, they are incompatible.

You can call yourself a feminist all you want when you also want to be a humanist, as I am assuming, and try to find sexism in everything to your heart's desire, but until there is a humanist movement, accounting for both genders' equality, nothing will get done other than MRA and feminist bickering.

Let me ask you this, do you see anything other than sexism here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80

It's kind of funny because they are, I presume, fighting for their rights, but why are they fighting amongst each other? Because they are TRYING TO WIN. This kind of thing would never happen if they were to combine and realize that they are fighting for the same thing: equality. Don't you see, if all the humanists united under one banner of equality for both genders, not just one, things would move along smoothly.

Maybe this is too optimistic of an approach but I know for damn sure we will get nowhere with this MRA vs feminist bullcrap. To me, this misguided war features crazies on both sides mixed in with humanists that decide to pick a side, and that is the most counterproductive way to go about it imaginable.

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30-07-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Why Not Just Advocate Human Rights?
(30-07-2013 10:28 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 01:35 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Exactly how I feel, feminists seem to want men to pander to their needs and curtail their speech in their preferred manner. Remember this fucking fiasco? http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-a...nferences/

This woman actually thought she could monitor these two innocent guys' speech just because SHE didn't like their jokes. Probably one of the highest articles on my bullshit meter that I think I have ever read.

If you're judging all feminists on the basis of one or a few events, then there's clearly a need for more feminism in the world.

You could pick from millions of events just like the ones mentioned, these are just the ones I am most familiar with. Btw, more of this sexism would really be a problem don't you think?

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