Why Prayers Aren't Answered
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17-05-2017, 04:13 AM
RE: Why Prayers Aren't Answered
I really hadn't fully registered that CC is a practicing, "capital C Church" Catholic. It explains why he can say things like "Christians don't teach that you should petition god". To him, the Protestant world doesn't count as "Christian" except probably in an honorary sense when he's feeling generous.

Catholicism does teach that god already has a perfect plan and can't be changed by prayer, that he has in a sense abdicated some of his power to his own physical laws and to human free will. To a Catholic, prayer is cooperating with god's will -- finding the grace to either be an agent of it or to yield to it. Prayer is, in other words, more purely meditative than petitioning.

If CC had said this in the first place and admitted that it's the position of his particular faction of Christianity, we could have been spared this whole pedantic conversation. He might also have learned something of how other Christians are burdened with different issues than are Catholics.
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17-05-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Why Prayers Aren't Answered
(17-05-2017 04:13 AM)mordant Wrote:  I really hadn't fully registered that CC is a practicing, "capital C Church" Catholic. It explains why he can say things like "Christians don't teach that you should petition god". To him, the Protestant world doesn't count as "Christian" except probably in an honorary sense when he's feeling generous.

Catholicism does teach that god already has a perfect plan and can't be changed by prayer, that he has in a sense abdicated some of his power to his own physical laws and to human free will. To a Catholic, prayer is cooperating with god's will -- finding the grace to either be an agent of it or to yield to it. Prayer is, in other words, more purely meditative than petitioning.

If CC had said this in the first place and admitted that it's the position of his particular faction of Christianity, we could have been spared this whole pedantic conversation. He might also have learned something of how other Christians are burdened with different issues than are Catholics.

Amazing that he never had a clue that some other Christian sect might have a different take on what prayer is for.

(16-05-2017 04:47 AM)ColdComfort Wrote:  No honest person would say the NT, or Christian belief in general, says God will answer any prayer of petition. It's a special kind of stupid in the strawman game.

So I do a simple Google search, taking all of ten seconds and see this:

Prayers of petition

Quote:What is the meaning of the word "petition"?

The definition of petition is to make a request. So when we come to God in petition we are asking him to do something - either for ourselves or others. The Apostle Paul mentions this word when he writes to the church in Philippi:-

" Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God." (Phillipians 4:6, NIV)

A direct quote from Paul. Drinking Beverage

But wait! There's more!

Jesus demonstrated how we should pray by reciting the Lord's Prayer:

Matthew 6:9–13:9

9“Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 10Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us this day our daily bread. 12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one. 14For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

So there we have it in Jesus' own (alleged) words, he asks for his daily bread and to be rescued.

I guess Jesus and Paul are not one of those "honest persons" he mentions. Facepalm

This is such an obvious thing, I simply don't believe he really thought the words "No honest person would say the NT, or Christian belief in general, says God will answer any prayer of petition." were remotely true when he said that.

Maybe Catholic boy can learn a thing or two from us atheists, some of us were former evangelicals, don't piss up our leg and tell us it's raining.

Lying for Mary is still lying. Laugh out load

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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