Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
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29-06-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(29-06-2014 04:14 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(28-06-2014 10:43 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We've had several members on here talk about how they went on a religious forum and got immediately kicked off the minute they brought up anything about questioning religion. Not even trolling - just for trying to have a civil conversation about religion and atheism. Yet, we don't take this attitude with them when they come our forum. Why is that?

The answer is really quite simple: Because we have no fear.

Religious sites are scared shitless of atheists coming onto their forums asking people to question their beliefs, because deep down inside they know it's a lie. They know that they only believe in their religion because of indoctrination - the same reason why people of all other religions believe in theirs. Like any other religion, they can't prove the existence of their deity, let alone the nonexistence of the countless other deities from other religions.They are living in a technologically advanced modern day world, where they are constantly faced with believing in ridiculous fairy tales like Moses parting the Red Sea, a guy named Noah building a giant boat and putting 2 of every animal in the world on it for 40 days and nights, talking snakes, and burning bushes that talk. All this magic crap that they laugh at in other religions, but believe to be true in theirs because they want to hold onto their indoctrination.

Our attitude: "You want to have a serious debate on religion thinking you can convince me to come over to your side? Bring it on!"

what's to fear? They are always at a distinct disadvantage, they belief in an un-provable delusional fairy tale Yes

I feel pity for them most times, it is just sad for an adult for believe in such ridiculous things.......I think jesus is santa claus for adults...... LaughatDrooling

Jesus is a false profit!
Santa Claus is lord! Lecture_preist
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29-06-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(29-06-2014 05:38 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(29-06-2014 04:14 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  what's to fear? They are always at a distinct disadvantage, they belief in an un-provable delusional fairy tale Yes

I feel pity for them most times, it is just sad for an adult for believe in such ridiculous things.......I think jesus is santa claus for adults...... LaughatDrooling

Jesus is a false profit!
Santa Claus is lord! Lecture_preist
Tongue

Well buying gifts for everyone is more profitable then just one baby.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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29-06-2014, 07:09 PM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
I thought we let theists stay on our forum because we're bored and want people to laugh at. Huh
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29-06-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
I wish we had more crazies like Meng or absols; they're just so fun to annihilate.

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29-06-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(29-06-2014 10:18 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(29-06-2014 07:28 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I think you are right on the money. Religious forums are echo chambers just like churches. It is where believers go to get booster shots of the faith virus and to help each other to pretend. The last thing they want is the antidote coming in there.

I used to post on another forum for years, freerepublic.com. Never had a problem until I joined a thread on Atheism. Within short order I had no less than the owner of the site threatening me with being shut down. It told him I would respect his wishes and please to delete my account. Now on this site the Christians come onto every science thread and mock and generally show their hatred for science but on their religious forum they have special rules. They want to bash atheists without letting atheists defend themselves. I haven't been back since.

Hey, I frequented that forum, still go over there, but it seems like the religious nutjobs own it now. I joined it over 10 years ago and just became an atheist the last couple of years. So my perspective has changed drastically. I'll still give a positive comment to anyone on those threads that stand up for science on their nutty creationist threads.

You noticed that too? It has gotten a lot worse. I pretty much stayed away from the religious forum and read mainly the science threads which are numerous. I think in the last two years the religious wackos have really taken over. I don't know why anyone would go there and post an article about science anymore. Leave them to their ignorance as far as I'm concerned.

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The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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30-06-2014, 04:49 AM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2014 04:52 AM by JONES.)
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
HI,

I can understand why they come in to this sight! Its a nice place to be!!

However, I will talk all day to a theist, and some times it will last all day as they keep challenging me and they do paper not to take the time to reflect on the answers given. They just move on to the next topic of challenges! It's the scatter gun of talking!
I have had one talk and yes the "Pascals wager" was played but I think most questions do the same round as in. Whom ever is the latest apologist is in ascendance and his questions do the rounds!
When the apologist changes to a new one then a new set of questions come out and when we have finished with the apologist and the old ones come back with the same questions!

The thing that bothers me is when they come door to door and say they will come back but never do! That reminds me, (I must put out some fresh blood on the door mantel.)

K:

Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunneling through a mountain with your forehead!
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30-06-2014, 05:32 AM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2014 05:46 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
I don't think that the theists who come here realize that many members of the board came from religion. Those members believed the same things and then thought things through and saw the hypocrisy and the myth that is religion. Seldom is the move from being 'a true' believer to atheist done on a whim. That deconversion is done over time with much thought and often with the loss of family, friends, and community.

The theists that come here to preach, convert, and save souls don't seem to take into consideration that this is an audience that already knows the tricks and the buzzwords and sees them for what they are.

I bet the list is really short of people who suddenly ran back to religion because a theist came here and put together just the right set of words to bring them back to faith.

On the religious sites, the last thing they want is for someone to start questioning the faith because that could lead to logic, reason, and lack of faith. An atheist on a religious forum may just reach that person who is already questioning. A Christian on an atheist forum is preaching to people who have already abandoned the things they have to say.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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30-06-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(28-06-2014 10:43 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We've had several members on here talk about how they went on a religious forum and got immediately kicked off the minute they brought up anything about questioning religion. Not even trolling - just for trying to have a civil conversation about religion and atheism. Yet, we don't take this attitude with them when they come our forum. Why is that?

The answer is really quite simple: Because we have no fear.

Religious sites are scared shitless of atheists coming onto their forums asking people to question their beliefs, because deep down inside they know it's a lie. They know that they only believe in their religion because of indoctrination - the same reason why people of all other religions believe in theirs. Like any other religion, they can't prove the existence of their deity, let alone the nonexistence of the countless other deities from other religions.They are living in a technologically advanced modern day world, where they are constantly faced with believing in ridiculous fairy tales like Moses parting the Red Sea, a guy named Noah building a giant boat and putting 2 of every animal in the world on it for 40 days and nights, talking snakes, and burning bushes that talk. All this magic crap that they laugh at in other religions, but believe to be true in theirs because they want to hold onto their indoctrination.

Our attitude: "You want to have a serious debate on religion thinking you can convince me to come over to your side? Bring it on!"
I think you are right to a degree, but I also think we have to be careful not to stereotype. Sure, some are fearful and they probably recognize how shaky their faith is the moment they enter a debate and figure out they can't construct a decent argument. So fear sets in because they don't want to let go of their faith, but they know they can't back it up either. So, rather than deal with that, they run from it and avoid the debates all together - even if that means banning atheists.

However, I don't think that's the only explanation and I think it's important to be accurate. Many people here have stated that they get tired of the same worn out arguments from theists. Well quite likely, there are theists on the other side who tire of the debates too. In fact, while atheists - especially apostates and deconverts - may feel a sense of freedom and may naturally feel the need to fight back, theists are quite comfortable in their faith and have never felt that sense of oppression. So many may simply not want to bother engaging opposing opinions. They go to their own forums to discuss their faith with like-minded people and are interested only in learning more about it or sharing common experiences. Thus, dissenters simply get in the way. In that case, it's not fear that causes the banning, but the desire to eliminate any disruption to their purpose.

I think this is an important distinction because if we accuse those people of fear when fear really has nothing to do with it, it can look like we're the ones merely dropping labels instead of presenting real arguments. For the lurking fence-sitters, it could be a point against us.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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30-06-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(29-06-2014 11:02 AM)Charis Wrote:  I can tell you that many of them do NOT think the Christianity is a lie. They do believe it.
That belief, to them, is VITAL for the salvation of their soul from an otherwise heinous eternal fate.

What they DO know, however, is that the object of their faith cannot be proven, and so if their faith is at all delicate, then it can be shaken or ruined by "so-called" evidence of contrary ideas. If they allow their faith to be shaken, they believe they are disappointing or betraying God... or worse, they are not and never have been a Christian, in which case they believe they are going to Hell.

Remember, the Christian teachings have people and ideas belonging, generally, to two "kingdoms:" the kingdom of Light and the kingdom of Darkness. Good and evil, God and Satan. It is taught that the way to salvation will only be found by relatively few people, and that an assault on faith will be especially prominent in "the last days" to such an extent that the population of those whose faith can endure it will be rather sparse.

It's not that they believe their faith is a lie. It's that they know it can't be proven physically and that the "devil" and those in the "kingdom of darkness" will use this to their advantage to try to "deceive" as many as possible, keeping them from "the truth" and thus causing them to end up in Hell forever.

Christians are taught to very very dilligently guard their faith. Hold onto it despite everything that would try to break it down. That's just the enemy trying to ruin your faith. Don't let "him" win. etc. etc. etc. For them, it's a cosmic battle. To them, an Atheist on their forums is more than just a person asking questions and sharing ideas; an Atheist on their forums is both a soul needing salvation AND an agent of darkness who brings temptation, discord, and other things that are potentially spiritually deadly to members of their board.

Just letting you guys know.
I agree with what you said here and would like add one thing. By allowing the "agents of darkness" on their forums, they may believe they are actually offending their god.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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30-06-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Why We Let Theists Stay On Our Forum: Because We Have No Fear
(30-06-2014 09:16 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(28-06-2014 10:43 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We've had several members on here talk about how they went on a religious forum and got immediately kicked off the minute they brought up anything about questioning religion. Not even trolling - just for trying to have a civil conversation about religion and atheism. Yet, we don't take this attitude with them when they come our forum. Why is that?

The answer is really quite simple: Because we have no fear.

Religious sites are scared shitless of atheists coming onto their forums asking people to question their beliefs, because deep down inside they know it's a lie. They know that they only believe in their religion because of indoctrination - the same reason why people of all other religions believe in theirs. Like any other religion, they can't prove the existence of their deity, let alone the nonexistence of the countless other deities from other religions.They are living in a technologically advanced modern day world, where they are constantly faced with believing in ridiculous fairy tales like Moses parting the Red Sea, a guy named Noah building a giant boat and putting 2 of every animal in the world on it for 40 days and nights, talking snakes, and burning bushes that talk. All this magic crap that they laugh at in other religions, but believe to be true in theirs because they want to hold onto their indoctrination.

Our attitude: "You want to have a serious debate on religion thinking you can convince me to come over to your side? Bring it on!"
I think you are right to a degree, but I also think we have to be careful not to stereotype. Sure, some are fearful and they probably recognize how shaky their faith is the moment they enter a debate and figure out they can't construct a decent argument. So fear sets in because they don't want to let go of their faith, but they know they can't back it up either. So, rather than deal with that, they run from it and avoid the debates all together - even if that means banning atheists.

However, I don't think that's the only explanation and I think it's important to be accurate. Many people here have stated that they get tired of the same worn out arguments from theists. Well quite likely, there are theists on the other side who tire of the debates too. In fact, while atheists - especially apostates and deconverts - may feel a sense of freedom and may naturally feel the need to fight back, theists are quite comfortable in their faith and have never felt that sense of oppression. So many may simply not want to bother engaging opposing opinions. They go to their own forums to discuss their faith with like-minded people and are interested only in learning more about it or sharing common experiences. Thus, dissenters simply get in the way. In that case, it's not fear that causes the banning, but the desire to eliminate any disruption to their purpose.

I think this is an important distinction because if we accuse those people of fear when fear really has nothing to do with it, it can look like we're the ones merely dropping labels instead of presenting real arguments. For the lurking fence-sitters, it could be a point against us.

I get where you're coming from, but I think what would hurt us most in the eyes of a fence-sitter would be our unwillingness to debate them and kick them off our board the way they do to us. My advice to them would be to go on a religious forum and asking questions about the validity of their religious beliefs. I'd tell them to do it as politely as possible as well, and then watch how quickly they get kicked off that forum just for the suggestion of questioning religious beliefs.

I'm not trying to stereotype all theists, but I am criticizing the way they run their forums. Do you know of a religious forum that will allow atheist members there who discuss questioning religious beliefs?

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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