Why We Must Fight
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10-04-2013, 12:35 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
This is why I am unfortunately strongly against homeschooling. The majority of children who are home schooled within the United States are Evangelical Christians. I do not believe all of them are submitted to this strong sense of brainwashing but I certainly believe a majority are.

Of course are current school system is atrocious so hopefully we do something about that first.

Another of my good friends is the exact same as this girl you spoke of. She spouts how completely untrue evolution is and when I provided evidence of it to her she completely shuts it off and just denies it without hearing much evidence of it. It disgusts me because I do believe intellectually raped is a correct term for this. It is forcing those to accept lies just for the purpose of accepting the beliefs of the parents. Which of course if given to a person who was given the correct information would be revealed as nonsense. It is for this exact reason that they home school their children to misdirect them and grow up a next generation of those who unfortunately will never know the truth and will only be grown to be controlled by this delusion that some greedy men realize they could gain funds from.

Of course still not all but again a strong majority.





That is why I strongly believe what Bill has to say in this.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

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10-04-2013, 02:51 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 12:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 10:24 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  The following is an excerpt from an exchange I had last night with - as I later found out - a 14-year-old girl. I found it rather disheartening.

She: Listen, I believe in God. My choice. You don't. Your choice. But evolution has been proven wrong. You know the geologic column? It's just circular reasoning. And when a Scientist said he made life in a lab he really didn't. First he started off with a toxic atmosphere and made a few amino acids. Life needs more than just a few amino acids. I could list off a bunch of reasons evolution isn't true, but I doubt you would even wanna listen.

Miso: I took a look at your channel. It turns out you're still just a young kid. This excuses your ignorance, because you've not yet seen nearly enough of the world to know how it works.

I'll give you a few years to grow up and figure things out.


She: Believe me when I say I know about evolution. I'm homeschooled and during school my Dad will show us videos by this preacher called Kent Hovind. I doubt you will watch anything or listen to what he has to say, but he has so many points on how evolution is wrong, I suggest even watching a short clip of some of his stuff. If you don't want to, fine. I'm only trying to help, but I can't force it on you. And my age doesn't mean anything. Just cause I'm young doesn't mean I'm ignorant.


I quickly ended the conversation, given her age, but I did leave her with one of Potholer's videos in a (probably vain) last ditch effort to "save" her before blocking her.

I was disheartened when I heard "homeschooled". I was further disheartened to hear that her dad is apparently intellectually raping her and (based on her wording) her siblings with good ol' Kent Hovind's dumb-fuckery. We can all clearly see how much of an effect its having.

This is why I feel we must actively oppose the creationists. People wonder if it's worth it, or they wonder what the big deal is; well this is the big deal. I do not believe "intellectual rape" is unecessarily strong wording. Not by any means. These kids' minds are being hijacked and controlled by trusted family members and religious authorities. They are going to grow up in an altered state from that which is normal or decent. If that's not a perfect example of intellectual rape, I simply don't know what is.

We must fight this just as strongly as we'd fight any other form of rape or assault.
I'm almost on the bandwagon, but not quite. What this amounts to is selective exposure to materials that the father or both parents believe is the best thing for her. It's really no different than parents who don't want their kids to watch violent movies and only let them see softer ones. They do both out of intended goodness for their children. While that's frustrating in this case regarding evolution, it's not something I can get overly worked up about.

Where I would have a problem is if this girl is also not allowed to seek other information via books, internet, etc.. As long as she is allowed to seek other information, there is a chance she will eventually be exposed to other ideas and may come to see the truth. I suppose that's where the fight comes in - in making sure that those other ideas are out there and easy to find - better yet, easy to stumble upon accidentally even when not directly looking.

I'm not suggesting we tell people what to teach their kids. I'm suggesting we eradicate the bullshit that's being taught in the first place. I have no doubt the parents think they're doing right by their kids. Just as the parents at Waco thought they were doing right by their children when they sent them to be consummated by their leader David Koresh. Without those fucked up beliefs in their heads in the first place; such things never would have happened.

You don't have to be on the bandwagon; I've more than enough drive and stamina to make up for 10 side-liners. My hope is to encourage the others who would stand with me.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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10-04-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 12:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Where I would have a problem is if this girl is also not allowed to seek other information via books, internet, etc.. As long as she is allowed to seek other information, there is a chance she will eventually be exposed to other ideas and may come to see the truth. I suppose that's where the fight comes in - in making sure that those other ideas are out there and easy to find - better yet, easy to stumble upon accidentally even when not directly looking.

I agree with you that this is the crux. It is absolutely possible that this child goes to a Xtian school and may never be exposed to proper scientific thinking but what can we do if this is the case? We can safely say she won't be a scientist.

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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10-04-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
But fucking what? Creationism is a symptom, not a disease.

What are we gonna teach our kids? Motherfucker, you die, that's it, game over? How is that gonna fly?

Creationism is ridiculous. Even worse, it is not even scriptural. But what? Should Misa have been flirting with a fourteen year old in the first place?

You know what I think? Creche. That's right, government sponsored learning via induction from age five. And no one has the "right" to be a parent... mostly 'cause everybody gets it wrong.

But it is too early for technocratic anarchy. I got no problem with peeps saying, it is wrong, yet I cannot help but think, the same peeps should be telling me what is right.

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10-04-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 03:30 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What are we gonna teach our kids? Motherfucker, you die, that's it, game over? How is that gonna fly?

It'll fly in a similar fashion to growing up without being taught that Santa Claus gives you gifts each Christmas. It's sad for the kids who believe in Santa to find out that there's no jolly man in a red suit to give you gifts. For the kids who were never taught about him in the first place, it's a non-issue.

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11-04-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 02:51 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 12:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I'm almost on the bandwagon, but not quite. What this amounts to is selective exposure to materials that the father or both parents believe is the best thing for her. It's really no different than parents who don't want their kids to watch violent movies and only let them see softer ones. They do both out of intended goodness for their children. While that's frustrating in this case regarding evolution, it's not something I can get overly worked up about.

Where I would have a problem is if this girl is also not allowed to seek other information via books, internet, etc.. As long as she is allowed to seek other information, there is a chance she will eventually be exposed to other ideas and may come to see the truth. I suppose that's where the fight comes in - in making sure that those other ideas are out there and easy to find - better yet, easy to stumble upon accidentally even when not directly looking.

I'm not suggesting we tell people what to teach their kids. I'm suggesting we eradicate the bullshit that's being taught in the first place. I have no doubt the parents think they're doing right by their kids. Just as the parents at Waco thought they were doing right by their children when they sent them to be consummated by their leader David Koresh. Without those fucked up beliefs in their heads in the first place; such things never would have happened.

You don't have to be on the bandwagon; I've more than enough drive and stamina to make up for 10 side-liners. My hope is to encourage the others who would stand with me.

I guess I didn't state clearly what I meant. I'm on the bandwagon regarding the importance of "eradicating the bullshit" as you put it. What I'm not on the bandwagon with is the title of this thread and it's supporting arguments which to me meant that homeschooling kids with misinformation is at least a reason why the fight is so important. I can think of plenty of reasons why the fight is important, but parental bias in what they are teaching their kids, even at the expense of truth, isn't unique to religion and I think there is little that can be done about it. But, as I stated before, I do agree that the correct information needs to be readily available and even pushed into the limelight.

I'm certainly not a side-liner.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-04-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 03:16 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 12:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Where I would have a problem is if this girl is also not allowed to seek other information via books, internet, etc.. As long as she is allowed to seek other information, there is a chance she will eventually be exposed to other ideas and may come to see the truth. I suppose that's where the fight comes in - in making sure that those other ideas are out there and easy to find - better yet, easy to stumble upon accidentally even when not directly looking.

I agree with you that this is the crux. It is absolutely possible that this child goes to a Xtian school and may never be exposed to proper scientific thinking but what can we do if this is the case? We can safely say she won't be a scientist.

"Would you like some fries with that?"
Eventually, she will graduate from any school. Hopefully then, she will find other materials to read. I fully understand, however, that it isn't very likely because she will probably read materials in sync with her indoctrination and avoid the others. That is, unless something jars her indoctrination and causes her to go seeking. That's where "the fight" comes in.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-04-2013, 08:05 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
(10-04-2013 11:54 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What are we fighting?
The ignorance of the masses?
The content of the simple man,
indulgent man,
with too many free passes?
Who are we to spark the heavens?
To dictate change to the rhetorical right,
This unfilled plan,
while you may do what you can,
do you have an end goal in sight?

What are we fighting?
The course of the rain
in a turbulent sky?
And are you the one
the rising sun
to define for us, why?

Oh..... why.....
Oh..... why.....

And I cannot even see
the gods for their tears.
Are you telling me of your anger?
Or are you responding to your fears?
Tell me, oh, tell me,
the will of havoc you would wreak
not of the path of destruction
rather, the utopia you seek.

From bitter searching of the heart,
Quickened with passion and with pain
We rise to play a greater part.
This is the faith from which we start:
Men shall know commonwealth again
From bitter searching of the heart.
We loved the easy and the smart,
But now, with keener hand and brain,
We rise to play a greater part.
The lesser loyalties depart,
And neither race nor creed remain
From bitter searching of the heart.
Not steering by the venal chart
That tricked the mass for private gain,
We rise to play a greater part.
Reshaping narrow law and art
From bitter searching of the heart
Whose symbols are the millions slain,
We rise to play a greater part
(Leonard Cohen, "Villanelle For Our Time")
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11-04-2013, 10:21 PM
RE: Why We Must Fight
This rhetoric of intellectual rape is disgusting.

I know women who have been raped. To equate a parent teaching their child something you don't agree with to a rape is sick in the Nth degree.
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11-04-2013, 11:07 PM
 
RE: Why We Must Fight
Frankly, I'm rather proud of her. She stood up to you and didn't bat an eyelid. She demonstarted courage and intelligence for her years. What a positive light in a very dark and atheistic world.
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