Why a Catholic Monarchy?
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16-01-2014, 05:08 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 04:50 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
Quote:But, on the other hand, if 40-100 percent of the people were in opposition to a Catholic Monarch, then I'd also say "why bother?" Such a society would destroy its monarchical paradigm in one to three generations. Obviously, such a population would neither want nor deserve a Catholic king, and they'd rip his head off.

Dont you see the irony, considering what already happend to absolute monarchs in the past?

No. I do not. I'm dense on this one, so please spell it out.


(16-01-2014 04:50 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  So you have nothing to say about the secterian violence caused through specific secterian dominance and you dont have an argument on how to prevent it during specific secterian dominance?

Currently, no, I've nothing to say about it. Nor have I thought of how to prevent secterian violence.

Just because I like the idea of a Catholic Monarchy does not mean I expect it.

A Catholic Monarchy is a sort of "uptopian ideal" of how I think a political system should be. Meshing that with reality gets different results from the "ideal."

It's like my desire to see everyone in the world become a Roman Catholic. It is a fanciful concept in which everyone gets along. But then, someone comes along and says: "How would you implement this transformation of the world's faith" or "What about the multitude of religions and denominations in the various regions of the world."

When speaking in a utopian fashion, the latter two questions would not figure in to it.

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16-01-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
Do you always ignore the arguments and posts for which you have no reply?

(16-01-2014 05:08 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  No. I do not. I'm dense on this one, so please spell it out.

Europe was ruled by catholic monarch only, for more than a thousand years. If this time period proved anything then it is that these monarchies did not provide anything close to good living standards anywhere on the continent.

The wealth and comfort that the people of Europe enjoy today was made possible through democratic governments and not through absolute monarchs who frequently abuse their power.



Quote:Currently, no, I've nothing to say about it. Nor have I thought of how to prevent secterian violence.

Just because I like the idea of a Catholic Monarchy does not mean I expect it.

What is the point of having a political opinion if one is not ready to defend it?

Quote:A Catholic Monarchy is a sort of "uptopian ideal" of how I think a political system should be. Meshing that with reality gets different results from the "ideal."

Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other.

Quote:It's like my desire to see everyone in the world become a Roman Catholic. It is a fanciful concept in which everyone gets along. But then, someone comes along and says: "How would you implement this transformation of the world's faith" or "What about the multitude of religions and denominations in the various regions of the world."

When speaking in a utopian fashion, the latter two questions would not figure in to it.

So you are simply daydreaming?

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16-01-2014, 05:41 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2014 05:49 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 05:08 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Currently, no, I've nothing to say about it. Nor have I thought of how to prevent secterian violence.

Is that related in any way to "sectarian" violence ?
It's a "Catholic monarchy". I do realize you RC idiots capitalize EVERYTHING, because you have this idiot notion that anything you consider "special" gets capitalized, but it demonstrates your utter lack of education.

A "Catholic monarchy" is an "utopian nightmare". It's NEVER going to happen, thus one can assume your attempt to discuss it, is some pathetic appeal to a nostalgic fallacy, and/or attention seeking. The Middle Ages were really great. Millions died from Bubonic Plague. BTW, there are many versions of Roman Catholicism. From "nuns on the bus" liberal Catholics, to enlightened "Hans Kung" type Catholics, to Catholics who ordain women, to insane "Sucipe Domine" *Traditional Catholics*, to fake ("sede vacantist") Catholics. The idea that "Catholic" represents some sort of unitary cohesive group, is a total bullshit fallacy. Of course it's YOUR version of "Catholic" who would have to pass the "right sort of Catholic" test who would be your monarch. Can this be a woman ? Or can the king be a queen, (in the "Catholic priest" sense) ? What happens if the monarch becomes an apostate ? How pathetically impossibly shitty can one idea be ? CATHOLICS don't "get along" with each other, you idiot, much less the rest of the world.

(16-01-2014 05:08 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  When speaking in a utopian fashion, the latter two questions would not figure in to it.

So then, there is no point to this bullshit, and you admit you're making up another Catholic fairy story. You people do have an abundance of fairies and their stories.

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16-01-2014, 05:47 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Do you always ignore the arguments and posts for which you have no reply?

Great question. Glad you brought it up.

I've done my best to reply to the questions I can and have time for. But I often find that forum threads turn into hydras. Many people asking many questions, and from those many questions come more questions.

My time's been shortened in recent months, and I was lucky to have some spare time tonight to reply. I figure it would have been worse to let this thread die with no response to the different questions people asked.

If there was something particular you wanted answered that I forgot and did not address, just remind me.

But your particular question for me about the 30 Year's War…I have no answer. I'm neither a history major, nor a human encyclopedia. The best I can do is read up on it and give you an opinion later. But again, time is short, and I don't know when such a reply can be.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything. But I suppose it comes off that way.


(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  So you are simply daydreaming?

Yes! Of course! Just as the Republicans think "Oh, gollee gee, some day the Republicans are going to take over and fix all these problems" …or vice versa the Democrats, it's all fanciful thinking.

Everyone has some idea in their mind of how things "should be." Every man thinks his way is right.

I'm an American who likes the idea of Catholic Monarchy. How likely is it I'll ever see a political victory? Never!




(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Europe was ruled by catholic monarch only, for more than a thousand years. If this time period proved anything then it is that these monarchies did not provide anything close to good living standards anywhere on the continent.

Good living standards and good social standards are two different things. A lot of things have happened for European society to have become materially prosperous and yet socially disastrous.




(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  What is the point of having a political opinion if one is not ready to defend it?

Many people have opinions they keep to themselves because they don't feel like defending them.

I'm sharing mine because I was asked.


(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other.

And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds.

Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

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16-01-2014, 06:17 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 05:47 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Great question. Glad you brought it up.

I've done my best to reply to the questions I can and have time for. But I often find that forum threads turn into hydras. Many people asking many questions, and from those many questions come more questions.

My time's been shortened in recent months, and I was lucky to have some spare time tonight to reply. I figure it would have been worse to let this thread die with no response to the different questions people asked.

If there was something particular you wanted answered that I forgot and did not address, just remind me.

But your particular question for me about the 30 Year's War…I have no answer. I'm neither a history major, nor a human encyclopedia. The best I can do is read up on it and give you an opinion later. But again, time is short, and I don't know when such a reply can be.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything. But I suppose it comes off that way.

Dont you see the irony in giving your longest reply to the question that askes if you are incapable of giving long replies.

(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Yes! Of course! Just as the Republicans think "Oh, gollee gee, some day the Republicans are going to take over and fix all these problems" …or vice versa the Democrats, it's all fanciful thinking.

Everyone has some idea in their mind of how things "should be." Every man thinks his way is right.

I'm an American who likes the idea of Catholic Monarchy. How likely is it I'll ever see a political victory? Never!

So am I wasting my time by talking with you?


Quote:Good living standards and good social standards are two different things. A lot of things have happened for European society to have become materially prosperous and yet socially disastrous.

Examples?



Quote:Many people have opinions they keep to themselves because they don't feel like defending them.

I'm sharing mine because I was asked.

Dont you have any conviction to defend what you believe in?



Quote:And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds.


Not a viable argument since you listed non democratic countries.

Quote:Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

I dont. And everyone who believes in democracy does not.

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16-01-2014, 06:57 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(09-01-2014 10:45 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Just a quick question. What do you mean by a catholic monarch. I also enjoy the idea of a catholic monarch however I still believe the institutions should be seperate. Would your monarch be under the direct command of the pope or would he just use catholic teaching as a basis for running the government.

I can't see either one working out in the long run.

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16-01-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 04:16 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ...
I do not like the idea of separation of church and state. I believe it to be a freemasonic ideal that leaves a nation with no moral ground whatsoever. And should such a state survive long enough, its people become so culturally and morally vacant, that greed is the only thing left in the dry husk that is such a state. But to be able to turn to the Catholic Church for moral direction in policy and culture would give a nation great strength.
...

Fuck me sideways!

Ever read a history book? I doubt it.

Ever read anything about the secular societies around the globe whose morality is derived from humanity's capability for fairness (reciprocity and empathy), accountability and transparency?
As opposed to Divine Command ... we've had civil wars to rid us of this corruption.

I do not like the idea of separation of church and state. I believe it to be an encouragement for religions to compete for survival rather than die an apathetic death.
Both church and state are constructs that leave a nation with no moral ground whatsoever. And should such a church or state survive long enough, its people become so culturally and morally vacant, that greed is the only thing left in the dry husk that is such an in-group.

But to be able to turn to our inner ape for moral direction in policy and culture would give a nation great strength.

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16-01-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
LMAO. "On the ignore list: Taqiyya Mockingbird, Hafnof, and Bucky Ball."
My buddy happened past a few hours ago, and saw his sig, and asked me "Really ? I bet you lunch you can't get on his ignore list with one post". I said "You're on".
Thanks for lunch idiot. I KNEW you had no answers, Hirsch. Catholic-Fucking-Monarchy-Indeed.

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16-01-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 05:47 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Do you always ignore the arguments and posts for which you have no reply?

Great question. Glad you brought it up.

I've done my best to reply to the questions I can and have time for. But I often find that forum threads turn into hydras. Many people asking many questions, and from those many questions come more questions.

My time's been shortened in recent months, and I was lucky to have some spare time tonight to reply. I figure it would have been worse to let this thread die with no response to the different questions people asked.

If there was something particular you wanted answered that I forgot and did not address, just remind me.

But your particular question for me about the 30 Year's War…I have no answer. I'm neither a history major, nor a human encyclopedia. The best I can do is read up on it and give you an opinion later. But again, time is short, and I don't know when such a reply can be.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything. But I suppose it comes off that way.


(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  So you are simply daydreaming?

Yes! Of course! Just as the Republicans think "Oh, gollee gee, some day the Republicans are going to take over and fix all these problems" …or vice versa the Democrats, it's all fanciful thinking.

Everyone has some idea in their mind of how things "should be." Every man thinks his way is right.

I'm an American who likes the idea of Catholic Monarchy. How likely is it I'll ever see a political victory? Never!




(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Europe was ruled by catholic monarch only, for more than a thousand years. If this time period proved anything then it is that these monarchies did not provide anything close to good living standards anywhere on the continent.

Good living standards and good social standards are two different things. A lot of things have happened for European society to have become materially prosperous and yet socially disastrous.




(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  What is the point of having a political opinion if one is not ready to defend it?

Many people have opinions they keep to themselves because they don't feel like defending them.

I'm sharing mine because I was asked.


(16-01-2014 05:27 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other.

And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds.

Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

You are ignorant of history and are making yourself look utterly foolish. Drinking Beverage

And putting people who have pointed this out on your ignore list is childish. Yes

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16-01-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Dont you see the irony in giving your longest reply to the question that askes if you are incapable of giving long replies.

I can understand how it seems ironic.

But is it not possible that I just type fast with something that is easy to think of, but on more thoughtful questions with shorter responses, it would take longer to respond and type those—because they require more time to consider?

Quote:Everyone has some idea in their mind of how things "should be." Every man thinks his way is right.

I'm an American who likes the idea of Catholic Monarchy. How likely is it I'll ever see a political victory? Never!

(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  So am I wasting my time by talking with you?

It depends. What do you want out of this conversation? Myself, I take pleasure in discussing monarchy with you and hearing you put things in a historical context.

I mean…I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. Are you trying to convince me?

Quote:Good living standards and good social standards are two different things. A lot of things have happened for European society to have become materially prosperous and yet socially disastrous.


(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Examples?


Well, okay, off the top of my head I have this.

Yes, in Europe you have running water and toilets, electronics, markets, cars, and modern amenities.

However, you have the European Union, which has been destroying the sovereignty of nations, which is run by super rich powers.

You also have an oncoming demographic winter due to low birth rates.

And also, as "Old Europe" dies away, it is getting replaced with an influx of Islamic immigrants, and it can be argued that Europe will not resemble itself in fifty years at this rate.




Quote:Many people have opinions they keep to themselves because they don't feel like defending them.

I'm sharing mine because I was asked.

(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Dont you have any conviction to defend what you believe in?

Defend what I believe in? With politics? Not really. Doesn't matter.

I'm more prone to defending my religious beliefs--but even then…I am on an atheist forum.


Okay. You said:

"Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other."

I said:

"And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds."

Then, you replied:

"Not a viable argument since you listed non democratic countries."


My point was that these three groups—Fabians, Islam, and China—they all have a goal in mind for what they want their society to be. They struggle to become that "city on the hill." They all have a "manifest destiny," as Americans used to be taught when it came to American exceptionalism.

It is probably arguable that their desire for this utopian goal—this ideal—is helping to deliver them some kind of success.

Meanwhile, and laughably, America has relinquished most of her sense of purpose, and we are deteriorating. There is no cohesive vision to drive this place any longer.

It helps to have goals.


I said:
Quote:Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

You said:
(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I dont. And everyone who believes in democracy does not.

Then why vote? If you have no idea of how you want things to work, then what is it that keeps you going to a ballot box?


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(16-01-2014 08:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are ignorant of history and are making yourself look utterly foolish. Drinking Beverage

And putting people who have pointed this out on your ignore list is childish. Yes

Foolish? I'm a Traditional Catholic on an atheist forum. I lost in this place coming out of the gate.

The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'. I could care less what they have to say at this point.

So, yes, Bucky Ball, welcome to the ignore list.

As for people wanting to counter whatever I say; I find that The Germans are coming has provided the most content and discussion. And yet, I don’t see him on the ignore list at all.

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