Why a Catholic Monarchy?
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16-01-2014, 09:59 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 08:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are ignorant of history and are making yourself look utterly foolish. Drinking Beverage

And putting people who have pointed this out on your ignore list is childish. Yes

Foolish? I'm a Traditional Catholic on an atheist forum. I lost in this place coming out of the gate.

The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'. I could care less what they have to say at this point.

So, yes, Bucky Ball, welcome to the ignore list.

As for people wanting to counter whatever I say; I find that The Germans are coming has provided the most content and discussion. And yet, I don’t see him on the ignore list at all.

You are either ignorant of the history of Catholic monarchies or ignoring it for some reason. Which is it?

They are a proven failure insofar as human rights and human happiness are concerned.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-01-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 09:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Foolish? I'm a Traditional Catholic on an atheist forum. I lost in this place coming out of the gate.

The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'. I could care less what they have to say at this point.

So, yes, Bucky Ball, welcome to the ignore list.

As for people wanting to counter whatever I say; I find that The Germans are coming has provided the most content and discussion. And yet, I don’t see him on the ignore list at all.

You are either ignorant of the history of Catholic monarchies or ignoring it for some reason. Which is it?

They are a proven failure insofar as human rights and human happiness are concerned.

To be fair to those crazy monarchies Chas, can you think of any other system or group of unreasonable, authoritarian governments that don't have a permanent record written in blood?

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16-01-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Dont you see the irony in giving your longest reply to the question that askes if you are incapable of giving long replies.

I can understand how it seems ironic.

But is it not possible that I just type fast with something that is easy to think of, but on more thoughtful questions with shorter responses, it would take longer to respond and type those—because they require more time to consider?

Quote:Everyone has some idea in their mind of how things "should be." Every man thinks his way is right.

I'm an American who likes the idea of Catholic Monarchy. How likely is it I'll ever see a political victory? Never!

(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  So am I wasting my time by talking with you?

It depends. What do you want out of this conversation? Myself, I take pleasure in discussing monarchy with you and hearing you put things in a historical context.

I mean…I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. Are you trying to convince me?

Quote:Good living standards and good social standards are two different things. A lot of things have happened for European society to have become materially prosperous and yet socially disastrous.


(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Examples?


Well, okay, off the top of my head I have this.

Yes, in Europe you have running water and toilets, electronics, markets, cars, and modern amenities.

However, you have the European Union, which has been destroying the sovereignty of nations, which is run by super rich powers.

You also have an oncoming demographic winter due to low birth rates.

And also, as "Old Europe" dies away, it is getting replaced with an influx of Islamic immigrants, and it can be argued that Europe will not resemble itself in fifty years at this rate.




Quote:Many people have opinions they keep to themselves because they don't feel like defending them.

I'm sharing mine because I was asked.

(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Dont you have any conviction to defend what you believe in?

Defend what I believe in? With politics? Not really. Doesn't matter.

I'm more prone to defending my religious beliefs--but even then…I am on an atheist forum.


Okay. You said:

"Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other."

I said:

"And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds."

Then, you replied:

"Not a viable argument since you listed non democratic countries."


My point was that these three groups—Fabians, Islam, and China—they all have a goal in mind for what they want their society to be. They struggle to become that "city on the hill." They all have a "manifest destiny," as Americans used to be taught when it came to American exceptionalism.

It is probably arguable that their desire for this utopian goal—this ideal—is helping to deliver them some kind of success.

Meanwhile, and laughably, America has relinquished most of her sense of purpose, and we are deteriorating. There is no cohesive vision to drive this place any longer.

It helps to have goals.


I said:
Quote:Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

You said:
(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I dont. And everyone who believes in democracy does not.

Then why vote? If you have no idea of how you want things to work, then what is it that keeps you going to a ballot box?


- - - - -
(16-01-2014 08:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are ignorant of history and are making yourself look utterly foolish. Drinking Beverage

And putting people who have pointed this out on your ignore list is childish. Yes

Foolish? I'm a Traditional Catholic on an atheist forum. I lost in this place coming out of the gate.

The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'. I could care less what they have to say at this point.

So, yes, Bucky Ball, welcome to the ignore list.

As for people wanting to counter whatever I say; I find that The Germans are coming has provided the most content and discussion. And yet, I don’t see him on the ignore list at all.

No one cares what you do or say. You have nothing intelligent to add or discuss.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-01-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I can understand how it seems ironic.

But is it not possible that I just type fast with something that is easy to think of, but on more thoughtful questions with shorter responses, it would take longer to respond and type those—because they require more time to consider?


Do you ever do reasearch on what you post?



Quote:It depends. What do you want out of this conversation? Myself, I take pleasure in discussing monarchy with you and hearing you put things in a historical context.

I mean…I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. Are you trying to convince me?

It is my personal conviction that the only correct way to have a political opinion is to constantly question it and have it questioned.

I therefor seize every opertunity to have my opinions questioned and to defend them.




Quote:Well, okay, off the top of my head I have this.

Yes, in Europe you have running water and toilets, electronics, markets, cars, and modern amenities.

However, you have the European Union, which has been destroying the sovereignty of nations, which is run by super rich powers.

Actualy no. The EU is an economic union firstly, private citizens can open buisnesses in other EU countries without having to pay special taxes and EU member countries are forbidden from putting special taxation on imports and exports to other EU countries. It simply is a free market zone for the EUropean continent. The political union was only established in the 1990s and it hardly has any power whatsoever, all it pritty much does is put very light restrictions on health policies and enviormental policies.
The European high court for human rights simply ensures that all countries abide to democratic standards.
Europol simply exchanges data on criminals within EU police authorities.

Policy is therefor still decided by the nations and the union is almoust always divided on what should be done.

Quote:You also have an oncoming demographic winter due to low birth rates.

Not everywhere.

And low birthrates come with rising standards. Countries which have recently become richer such as Turkey, Algeria, Tunesia and others have also seen a significant drop in birthrates. Birthrates are almoust always conected to wealth.

Quote:And also, as "Old Europe" dies away, it is getting replaced with an influx of Islamic immigrants, and it can be argued that Europe will not resemble itself in fifty years at this rate.

That is also a myth. The second generation of Islamic imigrants has just as many children as the other Europeans since they are part of the European middle class. Other than that, most imigration into Western Europe does not come from islamic countries but from eastern Europe, Caucasia and Russia.



Quote:Defend what I believe in? With politics? Not really. Doesn't matter.

I'm more prone to defending my religious beliefs--but even then…I am on an atheist forum.

Being surrounded by people who disagree with you, is not a excuse for not defending yourself.

Quote:Okay. You said:

"Utopias belong on in the wastebin of failed ideologies, the last century should have proven that more than any other."

I said:

"And yet, the very people in this world who work to change society—the Fabian Socialists, Islam, China—they all have an ideal, a utopian ideal in their own minds."

Then, you replied:

"Not a viable argument since you listed non democratic countries."


My point was that these three groups—Fabians, Islam, and China—they all have a goal in mind for what they want their society to be. They struggle to become that "city on the hill." They all have a "manifest destiny," as Americans used to be taught when it came to American exceptionalism.

What are "Fabians"? And manifest destiniy is not a global context word it is a specific word describing a American political notion.

Ideals of nationhood are different in each culture.

Quote:It is probably arguable that their desire for this utopian goal—this ideal—is helping to deliver them some kind of success.

I doubt that. Politics has almoust always been about confronting the current situation rather than long term planning - since that has always gone wrong when tried.

Quote:Meanwhile, and laughably, America has relinquished most of her sense of purpose, and we are deteriorating. There is no cohesive vision to drive this place any longer.

It helps to have goals.

That is a myth.

There is a reason why the US is still the worlds largest economy. And if one counts together the economies of all European countries the entire European economy is almoust twice the size of the Chinese economy.
Quote:I said:
Quote:Everyone has a goal. Everyone has a preconceived idea of how things would be in a perfect world.

You said:
(16-01-2014 06:17 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I dont. And everyone who believes in democracy does not.

Then why vote? If you have no idea of how you want things to work, then what is it that keeps you going to a ballot box?

I go because of current issues and the solutions proposed. Not because of promises of some distant utopia.

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16-01-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 04:16 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Again, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not making an argument—that is to say, I'm not trying to convince anyone or defend my case or any such thing.
I'm explaining why I like Catholic Monarchy.
So what is that explanation? So far you have offered:
(04-01-2014 10:25 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Then, I discovered a video of a monarchist. In short, I quickly adopted the pro-monarchy stance because of Charles Coulombe.
In addition to this, it seems to me that a monarchy on earth is what closest represents the hierarchy one can expect in Heaven. So, why not emulate that?
Quoting the name of a person you disagree with and adding that a monarchy is the organisation structure in heaven seems like an incomplete explanation. What does Charles Coulombe say that you agree with? Why would replicating heaven's social hierarchy here on earth with a human set up in the place of God be a good social structure? Isn't that just one step away from replicating heaven's social hierarchy with Satan set up in place of God?

The most coherent explanation I have heard on this topic amounts to "bring back the glory days". Essentially it is that the catholic church was at its height when the church governed over multiple monarchs throughout Europe, and that the support of and restoration of monarchs loyal to Rome might somehow lead to a second awakening of the church. Might that be what is actually driving your desire for monarchy?

(16-01-2014 08:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LMAO. "On the ignore list: Taqiyya Mockingbird, Hafnof, and Bucky Ball."
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'.

Well, I suppose I did call this person an idiot for wasting 15 minutes of my life watching a video whose content they completely disagree with. I guess that was uncalled for. I mean I saw The Germans are coming's quote saying that he wouldn't watch the video and would prefer the relevant points to be quoted. I thought, no I'll do better than that. I'll really pay attention to what this person is trying to share with us. I summarised the video, and LaramieHirsch disagrees with every point in the summary. 15 minutes plus the time to write up my notes, to really try to get a feel for what was being presented and what the OP found so convincing out of this guy's presentation. Was calling Larmie an idiot too much at that point?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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16-01-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 10:37 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 04:16 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Again, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not making an argument—that is to say, I'm not trying to convince anyone or defend my case or any such thing.
I'm explaining why I like Catholic Monarchy.
So what is that explanation? So far you have offered:
(04-01-2014 10:25 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Then, I discovered a video of a monarchist. In short, I quickly adopted the pro-monarchy stance because of Charles Coulombe.
In addition to this, it seems to me that a monarchy on earth is what closest represents the hierarchy one can expect in Heaven. So, why not emulate that?
Quoting the name of a person you disagree with and adding that a monarchy is the organisation structure in heaven seems like an incomplete explanation. What does Charles Coulombe say that you agree with? Why would replicating heaven's social hierarchy here on earth with a human set up in the place of God be a good social structure? Isn't that just one step away from replicating heaven's social hierarchy with Satan set up in place of God?

The most coherent explanation I have heard on this topic amounts to "bring back the glory days". Essentially it is that the catholic church was at its height when the church governed over multiple monarchs throughout Europe, and that the support of and restoration of monarchs loyal to Rome might somehow lead to a second awakening of the church. Might that be what is actually driving your desire for monarchy?

(16-01-2014 08:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LMAO. "On the ignore list: Taqiyya Mockingbird, Hafnof, and Bucky Ball."
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  The only three people I've so far put on my ignore list are the atheists who've shown me their atheist hospitality by cussin' and insultin'.

Well, I suppose I did call this person an idiot for wasting 15 minutes of my life watching a video whose content they completely disagree with. I guess that was uncalled for. I mean I saw The Germans are coming's quote saying that he wouldn't watch the video and would prefer the relevant points to be quoted. I thought, no I'll do better than that. I'll really pay attention to what this person is trying to share with us. I summarised the video, and LaramieHirsch disagrees with every point in the summary. 15 minutes plus the time to write up my notes, to really try to get a feel for what was being presented and what the OP found so convincing out of this guy's presentation. Was calling Larmie an idiot too much at that point?

This is why I disengaged. He has no rationale for his stance other than it sounds nice to him. He is ignorant of history, politics, and economics and has so far made no case as to why a monarchy would be a good idea. It is very much like hearing a young anarchist go on about how they would love for anarchy to rule then when pressed they don't even have a coherent definition of anarchy.

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16-01-2014, 11:05 AM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 09:38 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  As for people wanting to counter whatever I say; I find that The Germans are coming has provided the most content and discussion. And yet, I don’t see him on the ignore list at all.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

I am probably the most vial, insulting and aggressive creature on this entire forum!

I simply know how to contain my rage and only let it lose at those people who cross certain moral lines that I believe should never be crossed.

You simply didnt cross these.

Should you cross them I have 343 ways of serving your corpse for dinner.

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16-01-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 10:03 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 09:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are either ignorant of the history of Catholic monarchies or ignoring it for some reason. Which is it?

They are a proven failure insofar as human rights and human happiness are concerned.

To be fair to those crazy monarchies Chas, can you think of any other system or group of unreasonable, authoritarian governments that don't have a permanent record written in blood?

Most or all are pretty terrible and history shows this. The Catholic ones were 100% terrible.

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16-01-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 10:03 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  To be fair to those crazy monarchies Chas, can you think of any other system or group of unreasonable, authoritarian governments that don't have a permanent record written in blood?

The barbarism of others does not justify someone elses barbarism.

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16-01-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: Why a Catholic Monarchy?
(16-01-2014 10:48 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is very much like hearing a young anarchist go on about how they would love for anarchy to rule then when pressed they don't even have a coherent definition of anarchy.

That is very much like how I love the religion of atheism.

Rolleyes

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