Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
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08-05-2014, 07:15 PM
Rainbow Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
I feel that a lack of religion makes a person far more morale by nature because in a simple and short view at it, most religious people would feel inclined to do what is "right" due to a threat of punishment or promise of reward while an atheist who did what was "right" would do it, free of charge, simply because it was the "right" thing to do. Does anyone agree or am I maybe being far too biased? I am open to learn and discuss

I would give a f#@k, but I'm afraid to alert you that I am celibate.
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08-05-2014, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2014 07:39 PM by rampant.a.i..)
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
Good post, and good points.

Those who believe all humans require a 10-item playbook to behave morally and assume others without those specific guidelines behave unethically by default honestly scare me.

If you can't behave ethically without strict moral guidelines to follow, and then only under threat of eternal parental punishment, seem like their upbringing was profoundly lacking some basic lessons in the human experience.

If you only behave ethically because you believe an eye-in-the-sky is watching you, you aren't an ethical person. You're behaving under threat of punishment, and able to entertain fantasies of behaving without such guidance.

Put another way, those people lack character, and don't seem able to see the rational reasons behind The Golden Rule, or Thou Shall Not Steal, and are only toeing a line instead of understanding why the line exists.

Christians don't even get their morality from the JDCI God. They borrowed it from the Egyptian 42 Negative Confessions, The Golden Rule as first recorded in Mohism, a 221 B.C.E. Chinese philosophy, but likely far predating that as a basic Human ethic, and from animals that have no concept of "God" or "Morality" who appear to behave ethically because it not only just makes sensebut is personally advantageous to follow.

And I've run into these people. As a lifetime Heathen and non-believer, hearing these people say there is no morality and no accountability without Christian Ethics is not only horribly misguided, but downright frightening.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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09-05-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
(08-05-2014 07:15 PM)Shameless Wrote:  I feel that a lack of religion makes a person far more morale by nature because in a simple and short view at it, most religious people would feel inclined to do what is "right" due to a threat of punishment or promise of reward while an atheist who did what was "right" would do it, free of charge, simply because it was the "right" thing to do. Does anyone agree or am I maybe being far too biased? I am open to learn and discuss

*moral

This has been batted around a bit.

My opinion, no not really. The basic belief of Christianity is that Jesus is the son of God and that by faith in him you will be saved. Works are not rewarded, faith is.
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09-05-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
(08-05-2014 07:15 PM)Shameless Wrote:  I feel that a lack of religion makes a person far more morale by nature because in a simple and short view at it, most religious people would feel inclined to do what is "right" due to a threat of punishment or promise of reward while an atheist who did what was "right" would do it, free of charge, simply because it was the "right" thing to do. Does anyone agree or am I maybe being far too biased? I am open to learn and discuss
Sometimes it is difficult to assess what is "right".
Fear of punishment is not the best motivator to act decently.
Religious teachings that push fear and condemnation would be
better suited considering why certain behaviours are socially undesirable.
Of course there are religious people who use their spiritual beliefs to help them
do better in more practical ways.
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09-05-2014, 07:29 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
Doesn't make them better people. And one of the underpinnings of the Christian tradition is the martyred ability to pretend they are better people than secular people who would make the same choices without the threat of eternal torture.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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09-05-2014, 07:51 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
(08-05-2014 07:15 PM)Shameless Wrote:  I feel that a lack of religion makes a person far more morale by nature because in a simple and short view at it, most religious people would feel inclined to do what is "right" due to a threat of punishment or promise of reward while an atheist who did what was "right" would do it, free of charge, simply because it was the "right" thing to do. Does anyone agree or am I maybe being far too biased? I am open to learn and discuss

Depends on the religion, and the denomination of said religion.
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12-05-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
(08-05-2014 07:15 PM)Shameless Wrote:  I feel that a lack of religion makes a person far more morale by nature because in a simple and short view at it, most religious people would feel inclined to do what is "right" due to a threat of punishment or promise of reward while an atheist who did what was "right" would do it, free of charge, simply because it was the "right" thing to do. Does anyone agree or am I maybe being far too biased? I am open to learn and discuss

I agree with you.. plus if you were to read into some of the older bibles and religious texts it tells you to do horrible things.. For example theres something about it being ok to rape a girl as long as you pay the father money and marry her.. A wife cheats? Stone her to death. Son brings shame to family? Stoned to death! But besides all that there is still lots of hate these religious folks think is, in there eye's "right". Because their fake book dictates every part of their life.. How to think, how to act, what to be.. etc

Here in Texas i always see people kicking animals or torturing animals.. it's sick. I feel religious people think they are better than anyone else and everything else. I personally don't think we are better than anything.. We are intelligent and thus should care for the less intelligent creatures on this planet.. not exploit them for our benefit. But in some ways im being a hypocrite... i love steak and chicken Sad and bacon is pretty good too.. lol. WHY MUST THEY BE SO DELICIOUS?!

But yeah, i think if you have to believe that some giant in a cloud is watching over you in order to be moral then there is something wrong with you. I don't believe anyone is watching me.. yet i have always lived a pretty "moral" life. These kids should be taught the difference between right and wrong... not some bull shit scare tactic that usually back fires anyways.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus
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21-05-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
I also agree with this op as well. The only reason people do the whole faith thing is for reward vs punishment.

It works by offering punishment for undesirable actions vs reward for desired ones.

Punishment and reward are your only options and where an atheist stands. Neither should be used. We do things simply because we should, Not because we will get something out of it later on.


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21-05-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
(21-05-2014 01:38 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I also agree with this op as well. The only reason people do the whole faith thing is for reward vs punishment.

It works by offering punishment for undesirable actions vs reward for desired ones.

Punishment and reward are your only options and where an atheist stands. Neither should be used. We do things simply because we should, Not because we will get something out of it later on.

I wouldnt say I don't do good things for reward.

I do get rewarded. It feels good to help people and do nice things. Or the right thing. I think anyone who denies that is fooling themselves.
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21-05-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: Why a lack of religion is by nature more moral
Religion, by its very nature, divides people... It creates a "them and us" mentality. No matter how peaceful, placid and benign any particular brand of bullshit is, it still makes a distinction between those in the club, and everyone else.

Having no religion means you see all religions equally... Either equally valid, or equally invalid, depending on your beliefs.

Hence, why secularism is the only way to get anything done...

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