Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
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02-02-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
(02-02-2014 04:28 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 04:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yeah, but, he's so good at it...

It`s our best export.

?

I was referring to dear ol' frankksj's incorrigible ways. You know: non-stop straw men and broken logic. Takes a few plays from the I and I playbook, that man does.

(02-02-2014 04:31 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  And I find it hilarious that he posted a link to the wiki article on traffic lights as if that proved that roads use to be private in the US.

I find it hilarious that the sentence he quotes:
"The first interconnected traffic signal system was installed in Salt Lake City in 1917"
is followed by a citation needed marker. So there's that.

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02-02-2014, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2014 04:40 PM by JAH.)
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
frankksj, I do now begin to wonder at your thought processes. I gave concrete examples of places that had well thought out synchronized stop lights and you dismiss it as if I had no knowledge and you knew better because of some problem in LA which has no bearing to my comments. What ever stop lights have to do with libertarianism I do not know.

Then you go on to make the equally stupid statement about major roads all being made one way. It happens that I am typing in earshot of El Camino Real in San Mateo CA. It is the major non highway north south route through all of the San Francisco Peninsula, becoming Mission Blvd. in San Francisco. Check out a map, making it one way would be a catastrophe from beginning to end. In San Francisco proper there are generally parallel streets that could be made to take its traffic and there are in fact some one way streets there. In San Mateo Co. there are none that are parallel that could accommodate its traffic. From recent experience I would suggest that an LA native would say the same about Sunset Blvd. What a silly comment you made.

I am not so sure you believe in libertarianism so much as you believe you know what is correct. You also suffer the failing of drifting in comments that you think prove points but demonstrate you do not know specifically what you are talking about.
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02-02-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
I should still be more in control of myself.

He simply lives in his own world in which only his way of seeing things works and the rest is simply wrong.

Which is why he cant face difficult questions, since facing those would always mean questioning your own opinion aswell.

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02-02-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
As a European I can prove that roads where built by "the government" in an epic way:

[Image: TR0250-016-00.jpg]

Yes. Ceasar even recounts in his "Bellum Gallicum" that the Gauls didn`t even have roads.

The Germans were even so barbaric that they didn`t even understand the concept of roads until the Romans came.

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02-02-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
(02-02-2014 04:08 PM)JAH Wrote:  frankksj, I would point out that "The Germans are coming" has never promoted violence as a means for government control. That is your own personal fantasy and you should lose it.

Explain to me, then, how he advocates dealing with, for example, tax evaders? Of course he refers to armed police pointing a gun at someone's head for not complying. It's just that he doesn't consider it "violence" when voters have the police do it for them--it's only "violence" if they're on the receiving end of the gun. To me, violence is violence. A badge doesn't change that
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02-02-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
@The Germans are coming,

While I gave you tons of links and facts and figures, you have yet to post a link to the source of your ranking that shows Germany above Switzerland. Please post it.

I've seen lots of similar reports, and most of the time the reason Switzerland doesn't come out at the top is because the author takes points away from Switzerland because they don't lock people up for not paying taxes. It's really comical. They look at 2 countries, both provide services to their people through taxation. One provides such good services for reasonable prices that its people willingly pay--no force needed. The other country only gets its to people to pay if there's a gun pointed at their head. So, naturally, the author will take points away from the former country purely because it's peaceful and voluntary. Like if you have the choice of doing something willingly or with a gun to your head, they assume it MUST be better to do it with a gun to the head, and any country that has a voluntary system must be backwards.

Let me see the link to your report, please. Regardless, what's comical is you started this by saying Germany is better than Switzerland because Germany is a richer country. Then when I point out Swiss households are 4 times richer than Germans, you counter 'money isn't everything, we must look at other measures!' Comical, really.
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02-02-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
I just want to say that I have lived in the US for 24 years and I have never seen a police officer point a gun at someone's head. I won't say it doesn't happen because I am not that naive but I have never seen it. Frank would you mind showing an example of a time when a police officer held a gun to someone's head and forced them to wear a seat belt, pay their taxes, use a crosswalk, etc.
Just one example please.

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02-02-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
(02-02-2014 05:12 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Frank would you mind showing an example of a time when a police officer held a gun to someone's head and forced them to wear a seat belt, pay their taxes, use a crosswalk, etc.
Just one example please.

Easy. Wesley Snipes, for not paying taxes. Don't you think the cops that arrested him had guns? And, if he continued to resist, he would have ultimately been shot. It didn't come to that because we all know that resistance is futile when the person telling you to do something will shoot it if you don't comply. I'm sure in North Korea, too, you rarely see the guns. But the people comply only because they know they'll be used if they resist. Your argument that people who comply aren't shot is absurd. With that logic anything can be justified. A man can threaten to shoot you if you don't hand him your purse, and by that logic, it's not violence because, so long as you comply, you won't see the gun. To me, whenever you do something against your will because you know resistance is futile, THAT is what I mean by being forced to do something with a threat of violence. I've explained this 100 times already in this forum, but this keeps coming up.
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02-02-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
frankksj, What a perverse argument you make. Tax collectors send letters and threaten you with fines they do not come to you with gun in hand. They might ask for help if you barricade yourself in your house with guns. You have become boring with the continued rant about all government regulation being imposed by the threat of violence.
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02-02-2014, 06:15 PM
RE: Why are American liberterians so absurdly insane?
@The Germans are coming,

this thread shows why, to me, there's little difference between the left and right, and, in both cases, all they care about is being able to control other people, and their stated reasons are just red herrings.

Normally the left says they're in favor of equality and helping those with less. Yet, EVERY TIME I bring up how Switzerland is the only country where the poorest quintile make at least half the median income, the only country that has eliminated inter-generational dependence on welfare and still provides a strong safety net where nobody is hungry or homeless, the left immediately rejects it simply because the Swiss accomplished it without anybody controlling anybody else or forcing them to do things against their will. You'll look for ANYTHING to discredit them. Cjlr refers to a skirmish 160 years ago that resulted in 60 deaths to argue that Switzerland isn't peaceful. You refer to Switzerland's eugenics program, even though it was MUCH milder than in other European countries.

It's easy to discredit ANY country in the world by digging up old history, like slavery. But the real question is WHY do you find Switzerland SO offensive that you'd say: “The Swiss are amongst the most vile people on the entire planet.” If you REALLY were concerned with things like poverty, and had an open mind, you wouldn't call the one place on the planet that eliminated poverty to be “the most vile”.

The REAL issue is that the greatest power trip is to control another human being, to force them to do something against their will. You guys love “mob rule” where you get 51% of the voters to agree with you, and then you can send in the police to force the other 49% to do what you want. The one defining issue of libertarianism is that nobody controls anybody else. Everybody gets to exercise free will. So if you want someone to do the right thing, it must be accomplished through incentives, rather than violence and control. The left uses poverty and equality as an excuse to justify that, while the right uses moral issues. But, to me, both are actually the same, both are hypocrites grasping at excuses for being able to control other people's behavior.
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