Why are Atheists afraid of death?
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15-04-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
Quote:I mean, if you're religious, the issue of death doesn't nag at you for your entire life because you have an all-convenient reassurance that life continues after death. But if you're an atheist?? Life suddenly loses all of its meaning and you're left pondering what the purpose of anything is.

I think it's more than just a bit naive to live in the world you live in, in the period of time in which you live, and think religious people don't fear death. When religious people fly planes into buildings in a mis-guided attempt to assure themselves of a specific brand of afterlife, to still assume that religious people are not concerned with their disposition after death shows an astonishing inability to understand both religion and the lack thereof. Perhaps you should spend more time asking questions and benefitting from the knowledge that others have gained through their own experiences before you attempt to construct grand conclusions.

In a big picture, yes you are right; life "in general" has no meaning. But think about that for a minute. What are the ramifications to suggesting that life, in general (that is, all forms of it), should have meaning? That all species/forms of life should be working in concert to one central purpose? What might such a purpose be? The only meaning you're going to find to any life is the meaning you extract from your own. If that's not good enough for you, I'm afraid you're doomed to live a life which permanently lacks satisfaction, you'll allways be reaching for the prize but forever finding it just out of reach.
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15-04-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
Quote:When I say the universe is magical I'm saying that both supernatural and natural realities coexist... It has to. The infinite and the finite BOTH exist within the physical universe. Everything "natural" as we know it is finite. Everything supernatural lies in the infinite and is impossible to know what it is... But we have to acknowledge its existence.

Why? Why do they both have to exist? What evidence do you have for your "supernatural" existence? Please provide an example.

Quote:Yes... in a way. Think of it this way. Imagine this universe without conscious beings. Conscious beings never existed and will never exist. What is the universe then exactly? An eternal existence of dead matter that no one even knows about? Why does or should it exist at all? You can argue all day that the universe will still exist even if we never existed by pointing out "scientific" evidence of how consciousness is a direct byproduct of this "dead" matter but in the end that is a logical fallacy.

No it's not. What evidence do you have for a belief that consciousness is not a byproduct of our brains? Because data suggests it is. Why is this a logical fallacy? It's like arguing that believing 2+2=4 because the math and testing all suggest it is fallacious because YOU think 2+2=7 and you just know it. Math is flawed anyway because we have to use it to get any answers. It's nonsensical.
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15-04-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 02:21 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Leefboy, your arguments have been little more than a crockpot of shit devoid of logic and reason. They are not scientific, they are NOT philosophical as you have claimed, and they lack common sense. They are little more than the whims of your own speculation. Speculating is fine, philosophers and scientists speculate all the time as a platform for launching into more vigorous inquiries. What they DON'T do is label speculation as fact, theory, or evidence-based arguments.

You fail to grasp that merely asserting something doesn't make it true on its own.

Even asserting that something is "common sense" is counter productive.

"Well, science won't work here, so let's use common sense." What? So we're throwing out the empirical toolkit for testing claims, and relying instead on an appeal to commonly accepted ideas that may or may not be based on anything but misnomers or popular delusions?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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15-04-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  I never claimed anything to be true.

So... All the definite statements you made were... not intended to represent what you thought was "true"?

(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  If you absolutely need hard evidence to understand anything then don't even respond to my posts. They are not for you.

Guy, it's not our problem if we don't tacitly accept whatever vacuous declarations you make, it's yours.

It's all well and good to say that you think that magical ponycorns live on Pluto. Why should anyone else care? The claim cannot be demonstrated and would make no difference regardless. So what?

(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  When I say the universe is magical I'm saying that both supernatural and natural realities coexist... It has to.

You've merely repeatedly asserted that. For no reason. And refused to listen to the many responses questioning that attitude and raising the problems with it.

(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  The infinite and the finite BOTH exist within the physical universe. Everything "natural" as we know it is finite. Everything supernatural lies in the infinite and is impossible to know what it is... But we have to acknowledge its existence. For example, what lies beyond the edge of space? We understand that something must keep going on but we don't know how.

No. For one, space doesn't have an edge.

For two - "I don't know THEREFORE MAGIC" is stupid.

(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  Our minds simply can't comprehend it and science will NEVER give us an understanding.

Pretty damn big claim there, bud.

You know they used to say exactly the same thing about why the sun shines?

On what basis do you make such declarations?

(15-04-2014 01:22 PM)Leefboy Wrote:  If science is INCAPABLE of giving us an understanding to something that exists in the universe, then that something is supernatural.

In another thread you defined supernatural as unknown. Now you are explicitly defining it as unknowable.

Well - you can't very well then claim to know something about it, then, can you?.

So what you're now saying amounts to "we don't know what we don't know therefore I do know". That's... special.

You know, 'round here we got a saying we break out when that kinda thing comes around:
[Image: its-magic-i-aint-gotta-explain-shit2.jpg]

... this is my signature!
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15-04-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 08:34 AM)meremortal Wrote:  ...and there it is...

You came to an ATHEIST website. Are you really surprised that we DON'T believe in "some kind of higher power"?

You aren't going to get anyone here to accept your concept without any evidence. It's really that simple. And you keep using "reason" and "logic". I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

No I'm not surprised. But where else would I go? Religious people are dead set in their beliefs. Atheists are at least open to new ideas (or so I thought).

First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.

So any theory about the universe is possible. That is why people are able to believe in God. Life is supernatural at its base. We don't use evidence to talk about these things because we can't. We can only use logic and reasoning to choose the theory that makes the most sense. From what I can tell, MOST atheists believe that matter essentially came from nothing and that when we die everything ends. This is also a theory all I'm trying to do is explain what I think are flaws in this theory

Why would Joe Atheist confirm or deny the existence of something which, by defintion, can never ever be confirmed or denied? Falling back on the supernatural is just another way of saying that you aren't comfortable with not having an answer, that in fact you are so very uncomfortable with not having an answer that making something up becomes acceptable.
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15-04-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
I've learned to generally avoid threads titled "Why are atheists ..." or "Why do atheists ..." or "What do atheists ..."
because it is almost invariably a troll, an ignoramus, a woo peddler, or a pseudo-philosopher.

I think we have us a woo peddler with a soupçon of pseudo-philosopher. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-04-2014, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 15-04-2014 04:04 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
My first thought when I saw this Subject Post was, "What?! Atheist don't fear death! Who wrote this?"

Or at least atheist don't fear death as atheist, or because of their atheism. If someone is afraid of death, it has no connection or tie to atheism. So who wrote this, because that's a very odd then to say?

Then I read the first paragraph of the post. I get it now. IT'S A LYING CHRISTIAN DOUCHBAG TROLL!

...
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15-04-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_for_Jesus
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15-04-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
Quote:Yes... in a way. Think of it this way. Imagine this universe without conscious beings. Conscious beings never existed and will never exist. What is the universe then exactly? An eternal existence of dead matter that no one even knows about? Why does or should it exist at all? You can argue all day that the universe will still exist even if we never existed by pointing out "scientific" evidence of how consciousness is a direct byproduct of this "dead" matter but in the end that is a logical fallacy. You have to look at all this from YOUR perspective. If YOU were never conscious, there is absolutely no point for a reality to exist to YOU or to anyone else for that matter. The fact that you are conscious right now holds a much deeper significance than you think.

So if I'm understanding this, what you are asking me to believe is that nothing exists unless something, specifically a human, is around to experience it.

Did Jupiter exist before humans were able to look up into the sky and say "that big one there, we'll call that one Jupiter"?

Chicken, meet egg.

Quote:Why does or should it exist at all?

My, what an egotistical question to ask. And awfully religious, as well.
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15-04-2014, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 15-04-2014 06:59 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 03:48 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_for_Jesus

Ah, the second cousin of Taqiyya and Kittman!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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