Why are Atheists afraid of death?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-04-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:32 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  No I'm not surprised. But where else would I go? Religious people are dead set in their beliefs. Atheists are at least open to new ideas (or so I thought).

First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.

So any theory about the universe is possible. That is why people are able to believe in God. Life is supernatural at its base. We don't use evidence to talk about these things because we can't. We can only use logic and reasoning to choose the theory that makes the most sense. From what I can tell, MOST atheists believe that matter essentially came from nothing and that when we die everything ends. This is also a theory all I'm trying to do is explain what I think are flaws in this theory

Again special pleading of your case.

Provide evidence of the flaws and the theory will be amended to the new evidence.

And most believe the universe originated in the big bang. What existed before that is not known and going by default to the supernatural is just using a watered down version of god of the gaps.

So you're saying that whatever happened before the Big Bang isn't magic? What is the definition of "magic" to you?

To me, the definition of "magic" is simply something that defies our current laws of physics. The origin of energy and matter is a clear violation of these laws. This is a fact.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-04-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.
Cause and effect are human notions which we use to understand our universe. There's no requirement for the universe to conform to the expectations of our puny minds. But there *is* a lot to be said for the discipline of looking for evidence and trying to build on the limited knowledge that we do have, rather than just making assertions willy nilly.

If something supernatural exists, how will you recognize it? I can easily accept that something *might* exist outside the *known* laws of physics, because we are aware that these are approximations to the underlying reality. But if you *assert* that it exists, you must lay out your reasoning. And once it's subject to reason it's no longer unknown...

Quote:So any theory about the universe is possible. That is why people are able to believe in God. Life is supernatural at its base. We don't use evidence to talk about these things because we can't. We can only use logic and reasoning to choose the theory that makes the most sense. From what I can tell, MOST atheists believe that matter essentially came from nothing and that when we die everything ends. This is also a theory all I'm trying to do is explain what I think are flaws in this theory
Assertion. Also, any theory may be *possible*, that's why we use scientific method to ascertain what's *probable*.

We don't need to live forever. Worry about this life. Jeez. Next life, if there is one, which I highly doubt, I assume I'll figure it out as I go along much like this one.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
15-04-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 08:34 AM)meremortal Wrote:  ...and there it is...

You came to an ATHEIST website. Are you really surprised that we DON'T believe in "some kind of higher power"?

You aren't going to get anyone here to accept your concept without any evidence. It's really that simple. And you keep using "reason" and "logic". I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

No I'm not surprised. But where else would I go? Religious people are dead set in their beliefs. Atheists are at least open to new ideas (or so I thought).

First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.

So any theory about the universe is possible. That is why people are able to believe in God. Life is supernatural at its base. We don't use evidence to talk about these things because we can't. We can only use logic and reasoning to choose the theory that makes the most sense. From what I can tell, MOST atheists believe that matter essentially came from nothing and that when we die everything ends. This is also a theory all I'm trying to do is explain what I think are flaws in this theory

No. There is another possibility. What if nature is the first cause and always existed. You can't logically throw out that possibility. There does not have to be a supernatural cause for existence.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-04-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.

Ah, the uncaused causer argument. That has been refuted on this site and other places numerous times. No need to do that again.

Quote:Life is supernatural at its base.

Citation needed.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-04-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:38 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 09:32 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  Again special pleading of your case.

Provide evidence of the flaws and the theory will be amended to the new evidence.

And most believe the universe originated in the big bang. What existed before that is not known and going by default to the supernatural is just using a watered down version of god of the gaps.

So you're saying that whatever happened before the Big Bang isn't magic? What is the definition of "magic" to you?

To me, the definition of "magic" is simply something that defies our current laws of physics. The origin of energy and matter is a clear violation of these laws. This is a fact.

Im quite sure I will never understand what happened before the big bang, quantum theory makes my head hurt. However I don't expect what ever happened before then to conform tovthe laws that came into being after the fact.

And asserting that it was magic is presupposing that a supernatural being was behind it. Again the god of the gaps.

Also read the post before replying. I never said it was magic. I said defaulting to god caused it is a logical fallacy.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Blackhand293's post
15-04-2014, 09:59 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:48 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 09:24 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  No I'm not surprised. But where else would I go? Religious people are dead set in their beliefs. Atheists are at least open to new ideas (or so I thought).

First of all, are you denying the existence of a higher power? By higher power I simply mean "supernatural" or "outside the laws of physics." Cause and effect is a basic physical law... yet SOMETHING had to exist without a cause. This fact alone means that a supernatural reality exists, whether you believe in it or not. We just don't know what this supernatural reality is. Don't tell me you can honestly deny its existence.

So any theory about the universe is possible. That is why people are able to believe in God. Life is supernatural at its base. We don't use evidence to talk about these things because we can't. We can only use logic and reasoning to choose the theory that makes the most sense. From what I can tell, MOST atheists believe that matter essentially came from nothing and that when we die everything ends. This is also a theory all I'm trying to do is explain what I think are flaws in this theory

No. There is another possibility. What if nature is the first cause and always existed. You can't logically throw out that possibility. There does not have to be a supernatural cause for existence.

"What if nature is the first cause and always existed'

That is a possibility... but by definition that is also a supernatural phenomenon. That's my point... that the existence of nature itself is a magical thing
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-04-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 09:38 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  The origin of energy and matter is a clear violation of these laws. This is a fact.
Since we don't know the precise origin of energy and matter, how can it be a "fact" that those origins violate the laws of physics? Consider

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Impulse's post
15-04-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?




I quit being afraid of death when I stopped clinging to that last branch of Christianity (fear) that keeps people hanging on.

Onward, my faithful steed!
[Image: ezgif-save_zps4d93a674.gif?t=1395781443]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Crulax's post
15-04-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 12:14 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  
(14-04-2014 11:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Leefboy.

I think you are trolling. You gave yourself away within 3 lines.

Your idiotic statement that if you're an atheist life loses it's meaning is a dead give away.

As an atheist who has nearly died twice in the last 8 days, I can assure you life has meaning for me. It is the only one I will ever know and I treasure it greatly.

Now stop pretending to be something you are not, and stop bothering us.

Such a transparent thread. If not a troll the only other possibility I take seriously would be a moderator or admin attempting to liven up a quiet forum.

So, which is it?

No I am not trolling this is a very serious question and you clearly didn't read my entire post let alone understand what I'm even trying to say. I'm not here to debate about the meaning of life. From a purely objective point of view, life ultimately has no meaning. You can argue with me all day that you GIVE your life some kind of temporary meaning but that's a different argument and it's not even what i'm trying to address here. I'm trying to point out the misconceptions atheists seem to have about death. Please read my post first before calling me a troll.

I read your post. I dismissed it as rubbish.

There's no misconception about death. It is simply the end of your life. Life itself goes on without you.

Do you recall all the billions of years that passed before you were born? I imagine death to be rather like that -- you just don't exist. Kinda simple when you think about it.

Yeah, I think your trolling....


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
15-04-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Why are Atheists afraid of death?
(15-04-2014 10:00 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(15-04-2014 09:38 AM)Leefboy Wrote:  The origin of energy and matter is a clear violation of these laws. This is a fact.
Since we don't know the precise origin of energy and matter, how can it be a "fact" that those origins violate the laws of physics? Consider

I believe he is conflating the laws of thermodynamics with god did it.

Never mind that the laws break down at the quantum level, electrons poping in and out of existence in thier dance around the nucleus.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: