Why are Chinese homophobic
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21-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Why are Chinese homophobic
This always interest me. Really. I mean idea of homophobia was created by the saints of the old testaments (or is there even earlier recordings?), and is then spread all across the world by the follower of the old bible (so Jews, Christians and Muslim I guess).

However in the far east, the idea of homosexuality was not tainted by these zealots, since old bible never reached these places until more recent in history. Homosexuality is still performed and without discrimination those days (before the missionary arrival), Thailand, India, Japan etc. As that there is plenty of historical recordings eg. The Japanese brotherhood contract (even though its more pedophilia I have to say) and Kama Sultra. Its only after western morale invaded these country due to global westernization , people learned the idea of homophobia and become homophobic, regardless if they turned into Christian themselves or just heard about it.

However, one funny example is China. Chinese seems have always been homophobic, always, however there is no idea of homophobia. One example is this old literature by some ancient Chinese novelist, mentioned about a man who paid and slept with a female impersonation actor (In those days women are not allowed on stage, and female role were impersonated by male actors), and later is banished from his family as result (although sleep with a skilled female impersonator don’t make you gay , hell, who doesn’t want a piece of Matt Lucas when he hears that exposing dress as Bubbles).
So, where is the homophobia come from? Homosexuality is considered as a taboo in both modern and ancient china (although women sleep in same bed while holding hands is considered normal, emmmkay), but no historical recording ( as far as I know) of it. How did people become homophobic? Why? And who spread the idea of homophobia?

I call upon the wits of TTA if anyones familiar with Asian philosophy n ancient belief. (I would asked on Baidu if they didn’t perma ban me few days ago for spreading the idea of Chinese propaganda and how some of the Chinese tradition is a psychological weapon to manipulate the younger generation – IT’S A FACT)


One possible, although very unlikely theory of how homophobia exist in China, is that it did exist, but was later erased through historical texts. I heard that (from someone who believe in creationism, aka, my mum) the idea of homophobia was originally mentioned at very beginning of Chinese myth and lore, at the very beginning when the world was created by a massive giant and human were made from mud by a goddess with massive racks; there have been laws, mentioning man can only be with a woman, etc etc. However, someone, possibly Mao, removed these texts from the myth? (unlikely though, since the Taiwanese have the idea)
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21-03-2012, 08:13 PM
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
To be honest I think it is probably more a question of the psychology of the society. People (especially in more ancient times) tended to fear what they didn't understand. Education and literacy was far more scarce. Homosexuality in most communities would have been something different, a break from the norm.

I think it is therefore possible for them to have become homophobic completely of their own accord.

I do not know enough about chinese culture or history to say much more really.

I would say that I am unaware if China is homophobic or not, and would try to avoid such generalisations. People tend to be a lot more individual than that and whilst certain ideas can be more prevelant in a society, to label an entire country in such a way I believe is doing the people a disservice.

Now tell me more about this goddess with the big rack.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-03-2012, 08:25 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2012 08:45 PM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
The Chinese have not always been homophobic. In fact, there have been emperors that had male lovers who were celebrated in poems. For one example, search for the story about "the passion of the cut sleeve." There are numerous other examples throughout Chinese history. I would assume any negative view of homosexuality would come from people who followed Confucianism. Apart from the stiff ritual (no pun intended) designed to make the state run smoothly, the greatest aspect of Confucianism was ancestor worship. If one worshiped their ancestors, then one was considered filial, and since grandkids were the greatest pleasure for parents, having children was a must for any healthy male. Of course, you can't biologically father children if you are not sleeping with women. This was one of the problems that the Chinese had with Buddhism when it first came to China. Monks can't father children.

(21-03-2012 08:13 PM)Eternal Wrote:  Now tell me more about this goddess with the big rack.

I think he is confusing two stories associated with the snake goddess Nuwa. She created man from mud, and, after the demon Gong Gong toppled one of the pillars of heaven, causing the sky to rip open and flood the earth, she mended the sky with five colored rocks. Sorry, no boobies.
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22-03-2012, 12:37 AM
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
Well, the Chinese had a once male-dominated society. There's a saying that goes along the lines of "The men go out to work, while the women stayed at home".

But to answer your question, no.
An excerpt from Wikipedia,
Opposition to homosexuality in China originates in the medieval Tang Dynasty, attributed to the rising influence of Christian and Islamic values. In the past, political ideologies, philosophies, and religions of ancient China regarded homosexual relationships as a normal facet of life, and in some cases, promoted homosexual relationships as exemplary.

Regarding the creation story... I think you are referring to PanGu, the giant which lived in an egg, broke out of it, separated the heavens and earth, and died.

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22-03-2012, 01:34 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2012 01:40 AM by BlahBlokesBraBroke.)
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
(21-03-2012 08:25 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  The Chinese have not always been homophobic. In fact, there have been emperors that had male lovers who were celebrated in poems. For one example, search for the story about "the passion of the cut sleeve." There are numerous other examples throughout Chinese history. I would assume any negative view of homosexuality would come from people who followed Confucianism. Apart from the stiff ritual (no pun intended) designed to make the state run smoothly, the greatest aspect of Confucianism was ancestor worship. If one worshiped their ancestors, then one was considered filial, and since grandkids were the greatest pleasure for parents, having children was a must for any healthy male. Of course, you can't biologically father children if you are not sleeping with women. This was one of the problems that the Chinese had with Buddhism when it first came to China. Monks can't father children.

(21-03-2012 08:13 PM)Eternal Wrote:  Now tell me more about this goddess with the big rack.

I think he is confusing two stories associated with the snake goddess Nuwa. She created man from mud, and, after the demon Gong Gong toppled one of the pillars of heaven, causing the sky to rip open and flood the earth, she mended the sky with five colored rocks. Sorry, no boobies.


ye im talking about Nuwa, and what do you mean she dont have big racks, I thought in the old text it talked about how she nursed mud people her milk - from her breast.

Now thats a lots of milk therefore a big breast -
(22-03-2012 12:37 AM)robotworld Wrote:  Well, the Chinese had a once male-dominated society. There's a saying that goes along the lines of "The men go out to work, while the women stayed at home".

But to answer your question, no.
An excerpt from Wikipedia,
Opposition to homosexuality in China originates in the medieval Tang Dynasty, attributed to the rising influence of Christian and Islamic values. In the past, political ideologies, philosophies, and religions of ancient China regarded homosexual relationships as a normal facet of life, and in some cases, promoted homosexual relationships as exemplary.

Regarding the creation story... I think you are referring to PanGu, the giant which lived in an egg, broke out of it, separated the heavens and earth, and died.


emm, kk, I guess that would make sense, the influence of Islamic value, that should be it, since Islam is is pretty common in population since the old days.

Pangu was the bloke who made the world right, n Nuwa was the chick who made people. I was just wondering if she made any laws to her children to follow; which could be homophobicness couldve came from. but non the less, ye I think Islamic value shouldve be the reason.




(21-03-2012 08:13 PM)Eternal Wrote:  To be honest I think it is probably more a question of the psychology of the society. People (especially in more ancient times) tended to fear what they didn't understand. Education and literacy was far more scarce. Homosexuality in most communities would have been something different, a break from the norm.

I think it is therefore possible for them to have become homophobic completely of their own accord.

I do not know enough about chinese culture or history to say much more really.

I would say that I am unaware if China is homophobic or not, and would try to avoid such generalisations. People tend to be a lot more individual than that and whilst certain ideas can be more prevelant in a society, to label an entire country in such a way I believe is doing the people a disservice.

Now tell me more about this goddess with the big rack.

Well, I have to say the Chinese society (as majority) is still openly homophobic these days. I have 2 friends who were homos n they do feel threatened and tends to hide their sexuality.

and I know 40 years ago, sodomite can result in death sentence. Although its never written in law, but the judges dont give a fck.
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22-03-2012, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2012 10:52 AM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
(22-03-2012 01:34 AM)BlahBlokesBraBroke Wrote:  ye im talking about Nuwa, and what do you mean she dont have big racks, I thought in the old text it talked about how she nursed mud people her milk - from her breast.

Now thats a lots of milk therefore a big breast

None of the stuff that I have read mentions large breasts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't folk stories that arose about it. Nuwa is first depicted as a woman in the latter part of the Han Dynasty (220 BCE-206 CE). So these tales about her ample breasts would have originated after this time. There is a story about the Buddhist goddess Guanyin replenishing China's supply of rice with her breast milk, thereby feeding the people, but her original male counterpart, the Indian Buddhist god Avalokitesvara, wasn't culturally transformed into a female until the Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). It's possible that either one of the stories influenced the other.

Quote: [...]

Pangu was the bloke who made the world right, n Nuwa was the chick who made people. I was just wondering if she made any laws to her children to follow; which could be homophobicness couldve came from. but non the less, ye I think Islamic value shouldve be the reason.

According to legend, she invented sex and marriage. One of my sources states that this legend was later interpreted to mean that she had laid down certain sexual mores. I'm assuming this applies to one man, one woman-type stuff, which is naturally anti-homosexual. I am unsure when this later interpretation occurred, though.

Quote:Well, I have to say the Chinese society (as majority) is still openly homophobic these days. I have 2 friends who were homos n they do feel threatened and tends to hide their sexuality.

and I know 40 years ago, sodomite can result in death sentence. Although its never written in law, but the judges dont give a fck.

That time frame puts these sentences within the scope of China's communist government. This is long after the western culture and its laws filtered into China.
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22-03-2012, 09:35 AM
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
OP you seem unusually interested in other people's sexual habits and thoughts.

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22-03-2012, 07:40 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2012 07:44 PM by BlahBlokesBraBroke.)
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
(22-03-2012 09:35 AM)germanyt Wrote:  OP you seem unusually interested in other people's sexual habits and thoughts.

yep, taboo topics like these can only be discussed on the internet, no?

and I choosed here because TTA are more sensible and smart. I mean if I post this on baidu I ended up tones of homophobe replying - FAGS GO DIE followed by homosexuality replying them - STFU YOU IGNORANT ASS, then it get deleted for been flame post and I get one day ban for waging wars.

This has happened before
(22-03-2012 09:29 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(22-03-2012 01:34 AM)BlahBlokesBraBroke Wrote:  ye im talking about Nuwa, and what do you mean she dont have big racks, I thought in the old text it talked about how she nursed mud people her milk - from her breast.

Now thats a lots of milk therefore a big breast

None of the stuff that I have read mentions large breasts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't folk stories that arose about it. Nuwa is first depicted as a woman in the latter part of the Han Dynasty (220 BCE-206 CE). So these tales about her ample breasts would have originated after this time. There is a story about the Buddhist goddess Guanyin replenishing China's supply of rice with her breast milk, thereby feeding the people, but her original male counterpart, the Indian Buddhist god Avalokitesvara, wasn't culturally transformed into a female until the Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). It's possible that either one of the stories influenced the other.

Quote: [...]

Pangu was the bloke who made the world right, n Nuwa was the chick who made people. I was just wondering if she made any laws to her children to follow; which could be homophobicness couldve came from. but non the less, ye I think Islamic value shouldve be the reason.

According to legend, she invented sex and marriage. One of my sources states that this legend was later interpreted to mean that she had laid down certain sexual mores. I'm assuming this applies to one man, one woman-type stuff, which is naturally anti-homosexual. I am unsure when this later interpretation occurred, though.

Quote:Well, I have to say the Chinese society (as majority) is still openly homophobic these days. I have 2 friends who were homos n they do feel threatened and tends to hide their sexuality.

and I know 40 years ago, sodomite can result in death sentence. Although its never written in law, but the judges dont give a fck.

That time frame puts these sentences within the scope of China's communist government. This is long after the western culture and its laws filtered into China.

wow, neat history reference, thanks. emm, I got the idea Nuwa have massive racks from story books and paintings, since she was the mother of all men its just natural she have a massive racks...

and the communist part. No, sodomites was never a crime in the law, its "local justice" took their life.
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22-03-2012, 08:01 PM
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
(22-03-2012 07:40 PM)BlahBlokesBraBroke Wrote:  wow, neat history reference, thanks. emm, I got the idea Nuwa have massive racks from story books and paintings, since she was the mother of all men its just natural she have a massive racks...

and the communist part. No, sodomites was never a crime in the law, its "local justice" took their life.

I'm an East Asian Language and Cultures major, so I love to talk about stuff like this.

I see what you mean now regarding the "local justice." Its sad when someone can't be themselves. I may think the lifestyle is gross, but I respect a person's right to sleep with / love whomever they want.
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22-03-2012, 08:08 PM
RE: Why are Chinese homophobic
(22-03-2012 08:01 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(22-03-2012 07:40 PM)BlahBlokesBraBroke Wrote:  wow, neat history reference, thanks. emm, I got the idea Nuwa have massive racks from story books and paintings, since she was the mother of all men its just natural she have a massive racks...

and the communist part. No, sodomites was never a crime in the law, its "local justice" took their life.

I'm an East Asian Language and Cultures major, so I love to talk about stuff like this.

I see what you mean now regarding the "local justice." Its sad when someone can't be themselves. I may think the lifestyle is gross, but I respect a person's right to sleep with / love whomever they want.

oh, ye actually a couple, so 2 boys got bullet executed. My mum told me this story, she was little at that time, and my grandparents was there as a mob jury. (and they are selected as jury cos they are higher educated.... they both have university degree and they passed the sentence for death).

now we do this to pedophiles even if some of them never even touched a child in their life, simply for liking them.

fact about morality - always discriminate something
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