Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
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20-04-2015, 09:30 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(20-04-2015 05:03 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Another reason they will never accept such a concept is because they would have no need for morality....warning graphic text ahead.
So, If jesus sacrifice erased hell and absolved even Satans evil like what Universal reconciliation would suggest! Thaaaaannnn.....
I take your point, but Christians, no matter what they CLAIM, didn't invent morality and aren't it's keepers and protectors. The only morality they have is the only morality you or I have ... societal morality. Their morality derives from societal morality, not the other way around. They don't even get to declare people married ... they must apply to the state for a license. At least that is the case in the US and most secular pluralistic nations.

So Christians who believe in Universal Reconciliation and all the other kum-by-ah don't go off the rails and have secret basement orgies. They pursue social good, for the most part ... unencumbered by an urgent need to proselytize. This is a Good Thing.

But as other have pointed out the real reason for hellthreat is that it is a unique feature of the Abrahamic religions and it creates demand for the product. If the human condition is not explained by "sin cooties" (original sin and utter depravity) then they have nothing to sell that the local Lions Club doesn't have.
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20-04-2015, 10:33 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
So basically as stated, with UR, they have no cure to sell people for their illness!


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21-04-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(20-04-2015 10:33 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  So basically as stated, with UR, they have no cure to sell people for their illness!

They're trying to sell a cure for a disease which doesn't exist. Brilliant!

#sigh
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21-04-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
Another way to regard this is that Christianity is an evolved set of interrelated, mutually reinforcing memes. Remove one of the more central memes and others tend to be weakened or undermined over time. That is what happened when teachers of Universal Reconciliation removed hellthreat. Removing hellthreat weakens original sin and utter depravity, greatly reducing the urgency of those problems and in fact it probably is true that in many cases universal reconciliation (UR) arose because original sin and/or utter depravity and/or god's holiness were removed first -- it is back to that inside joke I mentioned: if god is too good to condemn man or man is too good for god to condemn, then you get UR. On the other hand, if you arrive at UR from the argument that redemption is useless if it doesn't eventually triumph over all sin and redeem everyone, then you probably eventually lose your grip on god's righteous indignation and wrath, and on many of the doctrines surrounding sin. Either way at the very least you are "forking" Christianity by doing this, just as the Mormons and JWs have done in their own way.

Christianity is the way it is because it got that way. There are very good reasons (evolutionarily speaking) why certain beliefs and teachings survived and endured and others did not.
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21-04-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
He did die for our sins, so like why do people care that others are "sinning" in this case? They do come at it form some jealousy "you're just revolting against god" angle a lot.

I just thought of an outstandingly strange alternative future where Jesus is still adored an respected as the savior... but that he actually saved us from Religion. And that he did save us from sins by removing the foolish rigid nature of calling plenty of natural human actions sins.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-04-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 09:46 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  He did die for our sins, so like why do people care that others are "sinning" in this case? They do come at it form some jealousy "you're just revolting against god" angle a lot.
In truth, "good" boys & girls feel put upon eventually because it becomes obvious that "bad" boys & girls have a lot of fun on balance and god never smites them. So it turns out that all the stuff they were an oak about staying away from, was a lot of deprivation for no good purpose.

Sour grapes, in other words.

I know -- I am one of those "good boys". Now I'm old and I don't even have fond memories of wild oats. That's suckage. But my own damn fault and my own naiveté.
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21-04-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(19-04-2015 09:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why are Christians almost universally opposed to the idea that the sacrifice of The Christ unconditionally atoned for the sins of all mankind everywhere everywhen? Everyone is saved by virtue of that sacrifice regardless of what any of us say or do or believe. Why do almost all Christians reject that Salvation is unconditional and universal? To add conditions to Salvation not only diminishes the sacrifice to the point of trivializing it, but to further base that condition on some mental state in my head seems the utmost in arrogance. I can't think of anything more blasphemous than to predicate Salvation on personal metaphysical opinion. Where the hell did that even come from?

So why can't Christians accept that? Do they need to feel special? Can they not accept the concept of a free lunch? Does it somehow undermine their perverted sense of justice? I just don't get it.

Is "universal reconciliation" a view explicitly promoted by the New Testament?

I would think the problem many believers would have with it, is not really about being special, but the seeming implication that all is permissible.
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21-04-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 01:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I would think the problem many believers would have with it, is not really about being special, but the seeming implication that all is permissible.

So kinda like the same mistaken impression you have of atheists then. "Without God what's to prevent GirlyMan from having his way with earmuffs?" ... okay I admit that's not a good example.

#sigh
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21-04-2015, 03:59 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 09:46 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I just thought of an outstandingly strange alternative future where Jesus is still adored an respected as the savior... but that he actually saved us from Religion. And that he did save us from sins by removing the foolish rigid nature of calling plenty of natural human actions sins.

That is actually far closer to The Truth That Is The Word than any christian doctrine.

#sigh
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21-04-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 01:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is "universal reconciliation" a view explicitly promoted by the New Testament?

You tell me.

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Colossians 1-20, KJV)

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22, KJV)

There are many many more.

#sigh
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