Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
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22-04-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(19-04-2015 09:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So why can't Christians accept that? Do they need to feel special? Can they not accept the concept of a free lunch? Does it somehow undermine their perverted sense of justice? I just don't get it.

This is yet again another one of those things where the Bible seems to say multiple things on the matter. I imagine most Christian's reason for rejecting it is because they believe it's what the Bible says.

I do think you are right for some number of them that they don't like that they put in all the hard work and that others could just get in for free. They feel slighted and think they should get more. I find this notion rather ironic, though, given the parable of the Prodigal Son.
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22-04-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 03:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-04-2015 01:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I would think the problem many believers would have with it, is not really about being special, but the seeming implication that all is permissible.

So kinda like the same mistaken impression you have of atheists then. "Without God what's to prevent GirlyMan from having his way with earmuffs?" ... okay I admit that's not a good example.

Not really.

The distinction here is related to how one sees God more so than any thing else. Where God in this scenario begins to appear as the permissive father, allowing his children to live as they want and choose, and whose role is seemingly absent and unconcerned. He's merely a father who keeps the lights on, and served as our cosmic sperm donor.

This God is not really much different than an absent God, or even a non-existing one. He's often just a place holder for atheism.
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22-04-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(21-04-2015 01:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  but the seeming implication that all is permissible.
Rather than saying all is permissible perhaps you could think of it as there is no permission giver, adults need to instead decide for themselves how they are to behave.
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22-04-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 01:50 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-04-2015 01:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  but the seeming implication that all is permissible.
Rather than saying all is permissible perhaps you could think of it as there is no permission giver, adults need to instead decide for themselves how they are to behave.

They are pretty much the same here. Having a permissive parent, is not much different than having no permission giver.
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22-04-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 01:56 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 01:50 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Rather than saying all is permissible perhaps you could think of it as there is no permission giver, adults need to instead decide for themselves how they are to behave.

They are pretty much the same here. Having a permissive parent, is not much different than having no permission giver.

But you assume that the "parent's" role is to give permission.

As adults we don't require permission.
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22-04-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(19-04-2015 09:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why are Christians almost universally opposed to the idea that the sacrifice of The Christ unconditionally atoned for the sins of all mankind everywhere everywhen? Everyone is saved by virtue of that sacrifice regardless of what any of us say or do or believe. Why do almost all Christians reject that Salvation is unconditional and universal? To add conditions to Salvation not only diminishes the sacrifice to the point of trivializing it, but to further base that condition on some mental state in my head seems the utmost in arrogance. I can't think of anything more blasphemous than to predicate Salvation on personal metaphysical opinion. Where the hell did that even come from?

So why can't Christians accept that? Do they need to feel special? Can they not accept the concept of a free lunch? Does it somehow undermine their perverted sense of justice? I just don't get it.

It isn't supported by scripture.
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22-04-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  As adults we don't require permission.

Yet, some of the boundaries of children, consequences, guilt, esteem, acceptance, acceptable and unacceptable social norms, all play a role in how I behave, in fact often restricting how I do behave.

Sometimes I may even avoid something tempting, because I perceive it as wrong, immoral, even if I have little reason to worry about being caught by any actual person.
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22-04-2015, 02:33 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 02:20 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 09:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why are Christians almost universally opposed to the idea that the sacrifice of The Christ unconditionally atoned for the sins of all mankind everywhere everywhen? Everyone is saved by virtue of that sacrifice regardless of what any of us say or do or believe. Why do almost all Christians reject that Salvation is unconditional and universal? To add conditions to Salvation not only diminishes the sacrifice to the point of trivializing it, but to further base that condition on some mental state in my head seems the utmost in arrogance. I can't think of anything more blasphemous than to predicate Salvation on personal metaphysical opinion. Where the hell did that even come from?

So why can't Christians accept that? Do they need to feel special? Can they not accept the concept of a free lunch? Does it somehow undermine their perverted sense of justice? I just don't get it.

It isn't supported by scripture.

Apparently, it is.

1 Corinthians 15:22, "As all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ"

1 Corinthians 15:28, "God will be all in all"

Lamentations 3:31-33 (NIV), "For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love"

1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV), "We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."

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22-04-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 02:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  1 Corinthians 15:22, "As all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ"

1 Corinthians 15:22 deals with resurrection, not all that are resurrected benefit from salvation. Some are resurrected to life everlasting and some to judgment. For example, there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. The righteous to everlasting life and the unrighteous to judgment.

John 5:28-29 "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."

Acts 24:15 "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."

(22-04-2015 02:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  1 Corinthians 15:28, "God will be all in all"

1 Corinthians 15:24, 25, 28 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."

By this time those resurrected to judgment have chosen either God's side or Satan's side, and the latter having been destroyed, the all that is left in this case is the former.

(22-04-2015 02:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Lamentations 3:31-33 (NIV), "For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love"

Lamentations 3:31-33 is in application to Jerusalem. They were punished deservedly, but that punishment isn't enjoyable for Jehovah to have to administer, and even then, there was mercy.

(22-04-2015 02:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV), "We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."

Salvation is possible for all, but that doesn't constitute acceptance or adherence to it's requirements. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20 / Matthew 13:3-8 / 2 Peter 1:10 / John 3:16)
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22-04-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: Why are Christians so opposed to Universal Reconciliation?
(22-04-2015 02:20 PM)The Theist Wrote:  It isn't supported by scripture.

Apparently there are Biblical scholars who disagree. Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years.

#sigh
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