Why are most atheists leftists?
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12-05-2013, 02:23 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:21 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:20 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  It's not an "obsession", it's an interest.

Then why the interest?

Because I think it is significant and relevant science, and is generally suppressed by politically correct forces, for which I enjoy exposing.
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12-05-2013, 02:26 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:23 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:21 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Then why the interest?

Because I think it is significant and relevant science, and is generally suppressed by politically correct forces, for which I enjoy exposing.

are you a race realist?

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12-05-2013, 02:30 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 01:14 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  I'm not sure if this is the most complete reason, but my theory is that because conservatism (and to some extent even libertarianism) is associated with religion, particularly Christianity in popular culture, atheists feel obligated to oppose that associated ideology as well.

Just a thought.

It's really weird that conservatism is associated with religion. Would Jesus have been conservative?

Modern conservatives are for protecting the rights of the wealthy to keep their money, while liberals are for helping the poor with money that they didn't earn. Jesus strikes me as anti-rich and biased towards the poor (which makes sense, as a homeless man with no possessions himself). Another way of looking at conservatism is by the traditional view that spawned its name, conserving the past and avoiding change. However, Jesus was a radical by any definition and made big changes to religion and traditional views of morality. I don't think Jesus was trying to conserve past ideals, and that was reflected heavily in his disagreements with the Pharisees, who fought to keep Jewish law and tradition intact.

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12-05-2013, 02:37 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:30 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Modern conservatives are for protecting the rights of the wealthy to keep their money...

What a simpleton understanding of conservatism, as if that's all that has to do with it.

(12-05-2013 02:30 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Jesus strikes me as anti-rich and biased towards the poor (which makes sense, as a homeless man with no possessions himself). Another way of looking at conservatism is by the traditional view that spawned its name, conserving the past and avoiding change. However, Jesus was a radical by any definition and made big changes to religion and traditional views of morality. I don't think Jesus was trying to conserve past ideals, and that was reflected heavily in his disagreements with the Pharisees, who fought to keep Jewish law and tradition intact.

All interesting questions to battle Christian conservatives with, but quite irrelevant in this thread. This is about atheists, and the reasons for their political leanings.
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12-05-2013, 02:37 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:26 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:23 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  Because I think it is significant and relevant science, and is generally suppressed by politically correct forces, for which I enjoy exposing.

are you a race realist?

Damn, you're quick.
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12-05-2013, 02:48 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 02:51 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:37 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:26 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  are you a race realist?

Damn, you're quick.

You are too easy to expose. I'm going to bed.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racial_realism

Racial realism or race realism (of late pushed on the euphemism treadmill to human biodiversity, sometimes abbreviated HBD) is a pathetically transparent attempt by bigots to rebrand racialist and racist ideologies. The term is commonly used by David Duke, Jared Taylor, and sundry other white supremacists, which should be a big clue. The term is also bandied about quite often by the cranks at VDARE and the Pioneer Fund. The term is meant to lend a veneer of respectability to racism. However, even the less foaming-at-the-mouth loons who use the term still prattle on about skull sizes and IQ and the "Mongoloids," "Caucasoids," and "Negroids" and other such chestnuts of "scientific" racism. It also allows racists to act indignant when being called on their racism — "I'm not a racist, I'm a racial realist!" Self-appointed racial realists like to call their opponents "race deniers" or "racial difference deniers."

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12-05-2013, 02:53 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:37 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:30 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Modern conservatives are for protecting the rights of the wealthy to keep their money...

What a simpleton understanding of conservatism, as if that's all that has to do with it.

...

All interesting questions to battle Christian conservatives with, but quite irrelevant in this thread. This is about atheists, and the reasons for their political leanings.

Of course the conservative view of pro-wealthy bias is not all there is to conservatism -- it just strikes me as a strange view for conservatives, given their religious bias. One might even call it inconsistent.

The point I was implying is that atheists aren't necessarily enemies of Jesus' political views. Many of us love the golden rule that was expressed by Jesus, and because of that we wouldn't suggest that people we disagree with are "simpletons" (those of us that agree with such teachings of Jesus, that is). I like his views on poverty, charity, mercy, and humility. I also thought his answer to the question of taxes was clever and quite logical.

So, knowing that correlation does not imply causation, what evidence do you have that atheists are "leftist" simply because the religious are "rightist"? Isn't it equally likely that the religious are conservative because their opponents, the atheists, are liberal?

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12-05-2013, 03:04 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:48 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:37 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  Damn, you're quick.

You are too easy to expose. I'm going to bed.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racial_realism

Racial realism or race realism (of late pushed on the euphemism treadmill to human biodiversity, sometimes abbreviated HBD) is a pathetically transparent attempt by bigots to rebrand racialist and racist ideologies. The term is commonly used by David Duke, Jared Taylor, and sundry other white supremacists, which should be a big clue. The term is also bandied about quite often by the cranks at VDARE and the Pioneer Fund. The term is meant to lend a veneer of respectability to racism. However, even the less foaming-at-the-mouth loons who use the term still prattle on about skull sizes and IQ and the "Mongoloids," "Caucasoids," and "Negroids" and other such chestnuts of "scientific" racism. It also allows racists to act indignant when being called on their racism — "I'm not a racist, I'm a racial realist!" Self-appointed racial realists like to call their opponents "race deniers" or "racial difference deniers."

You didn't "expose" anything, as you haven't argued against any of my substantive points regarding race. You're just copy/pasting condescending descriptions of my position.

Looking at that page you linked, there are numerous problems. They appeal to Lewontin's Fallacy, they strawman J.P. Rushton, they don't even bother to criticize The Bell Curve (many have tried and failed).

Also, its external links are to Tim Wise, who is an anti-white Marxist Critical Race Theorist, a comedy video of John Cleese imitating Hitler, and to a random anti-racist blogger.

Nothing about that page is scientific.
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12-05-2013, 03:08 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 03:13 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:48 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 02:37 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  Damn, you're quick.

You are too easy to expose. I'm going to bed.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racial_realism

Racial realism or race realism (of late pushed on the euphemism treadmill to human biodiversity, sometimes abbreviated HBD) is a pathetically transparent attempt by bigots to rebrand racialist and racist ideologies. The term is commonly used by David Duke, Jared Taylor, and sundry other white supremacists, which should be a big clue. The term is also bandied about quite often by the cranks at VDARE and the Pioneer Fund. The term is meant to lend a veneer of respectability to racism. However, even the less foaming-at-the-mouth loons who use the term still prattle on about skull sizes and IQ and the "Mongoloids," "Caucasoids," and "Negroids" and other such chestnuts of "scientific" racism. It also allows racists to act indignant when being called on their racism — "I'm not a racist, I'm a racial realist!" Self-appointed racial realists like to call their opponents "race deniers" or "racial difference deniers."

Google searching "racial realism" brings up the Wikipedia article on "Scientific racism".

Quote:Scientific racism is the use of scientific or pseudo-scientific techniques and hypotheses to support or justify the belief in racism, racial inferiority, or racial superiority, or alternatively the claim of classifying individuals of different phenotypes into discrete races or ethnicities...

huh.

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12-05-2013, 03:11 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 02:53 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Of course the conservative view of pro-wealthy bias is not all there is to conservatism...

It isn't a "pro-wealthy" view, it's a pro-hardwork and pro-free-market view.

The point I was implying is that atheists aren't necessarily enemies of Jesus' political views. Many of us love the golden rule that was expressed by Jesus, and because of that we wouldn't suggest that people we disagree with are "simpletons" (those of us that agree with such teachings of Jesus, that is). I like his views on poverty, charity, mercy, and humility. I also thought his answer to the question of taxes was clever and quite logical.

(12-05-2013 02:53 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  what evidence do you have that atheists are "leftist" simply because the religious are "rightist"?

I never said I had evidence, it was just a theory, or more like a hunch. And I never said that was the complete reason, but could be part of the reason.

(12-05-2013 02:53 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Isn't it equally likely that the religious are conservative because their opponents, the atheists, are liberal?

Perhaps that is the case, but conservatives have been around a lot longer. Atheism is more of a force now than its ever been, so it interests me as to why so many of them are leftists.
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