Why are most atheists leftists?
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12-05-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
When you apply rationality and critical thinking to religious beliefs, you tend to reach the conclusion of atheism.

When you apply rationality and critical thinking to political viewpoints and ideologies, you tend to reach a humanitarian position which has far more in common with left wing ideology than right wing.

As to the issue of the conservative view of helping the rich get richer - that is less of a problem outside of the USA. We have a conservative government currently in the UK, and while there is an element of that to be sure, they are far less focussed on it than the current Republican party.

Frankly the Republican party are not true conservatives. They are supposed to value small government and free/competitive markets, but the GOP right now is far more in favour of imposing their own personal values onto everyone else in pretty much every aspect of their lives, discriminating against ethnic minorities/women and squeezing out all financial competition for their rich donors. The more extreme and further right you go, the better you do in the modern day Republican party.

Barack Obama is far closer to a traditional conservative viewpoint than practically the entire Republican party, and even he is often to the right hand side of it on the political spectrum.
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12-05-2013, 07:07 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 06:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Not the original post, the original poster. Silly-face. Tongue

And it is not an ad hom as I make no reference to the argument, which is stupid because it is stupid, merely stating the bias of the poster. Big Grin

Ad hominem means "against the man", so it isn't necessary to reference an argument in order to launch an ad hom attack. Wink

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12-05-2013, 07:36 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 03:11 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  Perhaps that is the case, but conservatives have been around a lot longer. Atheism is more of a force now than its ever been, so it interests me as to why so many of them are leftists.

Atheism predates politics in its entirety.


As the OP goes, the assertion is that atheists choose to support or not support a political ideology based solely on its relationship with religion. In addition to being unsupported, it necessarily assumes that atheists do not use logic when choosing political parties. This assumption is contrary to the very methodology that brings most theists out of religion in the first place.

In other words, it's saying that atheists are logical and rational enough to find their way away from religion but they're also so irrational as to reject ideas based solely on association. That's a bit of an untenable position...

It occurs to me that the relationship between statism and atheists is a more accurate position from which to argue. Modern liberalism tends to embrace the state, while conservatives reject it on a number of levels. In fact, conservatives tend to only want the state function in a few areas of human life while modern liberals want the state to have a hand in virtually all human interaction.

That said, atheists can shed their religion but in doing so, they cannot shed their psychological make up. And since almost all human beings are raised in a top down authoritarian environment, almost all human beings seek to replicate this environment as adults.

Conservatives have their gods but atheists don't, so they seek the state as the defacto god in replacement for the one they rejected.

Among the reasons why I hold this position is the fact that religious democrats don't tend to be as dependent on the state as their secular peers. They don't call for legislation in nearly as many instances that secular liberals do, because they don't see the state as a provider. They have their god for that, so the state is just a tool, to be used when needed but to be rejected when not.

We can also see evidence for this phenomena in the writings of secular liberals. The unconscious use of parental phrasing with reference to the state can be found in secular liberal writings, indicating that the state is seen as the parental authoritarian figure of adulthood. Conservatives and religious democrats exhibit some of this phrasing but to a much smaller degree.

Moreover, from personal experience with arguing against the state in its entirety, secular liberals often take such offense to the voluntarism position that it is clear that they view my arguments for the abolition of the state with the same horror they would if I were arguing that we should get rid of their parents. Conservatives and religious democrats tend to react with arguments from effect and appeals to tradition, which secular statists also do, bit the latter are much quicker to resort to ad hominem and, much more vitriolic in their delivery of same.

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12-05-2013, 07:38 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 07:07 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 06:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Not the original post, the original poster. Silly-face. Tongue

And it is not an ad hom as I make no reference to the argument, which is stupid because it is stupid, merely stating the bias of the poster. Big Grin

Ad hominem means "against the man", so it isn't necessary to reference an argument in order to launch an ad hom attack. Wink

It is applied to deflecting the course of an argument away from its merits and towards its presenter. Silly-face. Tongue

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12-05-2013, 08:01 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 07:38 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 07:07 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Ad hominem means "against the man", so it isn't necessary to reference an argument in order to launch an ad hom attack. Wink

It is applied to deflecting the course of an argument away from its merits and towards its presenter. Silly-face. Tongue

And what is an internet forum if not a place of arguments?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-05-2013, 08:02 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 01:49 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 01:14 AM)Spectral-Rothbardian Wrote:  I'm not sure if this is the most complete reason, but my theory is that because conservatism (and to some extent even libertarianism) is associated with religion, particularly Christianity in popular culture, atheists feel obligated to oppose that associated ideology as well.

Just a thought.

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I agree

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12-05-2013, 08:28 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 08:01 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 07:38 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It is applied to deflecting the course of an argument away from its merits and towards its presenter. Silly-face. Tongue

And what is an internet forum if not a place of arguments?

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12-05-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 08:28 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 08:01 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  And what is an internet forum if not a place of arguments?

[Image: youre-wrong.jpg]

Oh, I see.

It's not a place of arguments but of contradictions.

I'm in the wrong room.




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12-05-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 08:28 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  [Image: youre-wrong.jpg]

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12-05-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Why are most atheists leftists?
(12-05-2013 05:17 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I like his views on poverty, charity, mercy, and humility. I also thought his answer to the question of taxes was clever and quite logical."

I doubt you do. Reread what Jeebus actually said.

I'm well-aware of what "Jeebus" actually said. He said that, since the government had issued the currency, that it deserved to get a portion of that currency in return. I thought that was fair and logical. And while there are problems with Jesus' overall views on how one treats enemies, it's better than many alternative theories that have been suggested.

You don't have to dismiss everything that a person says just because you don't like that person. Not everything that Jesus said is "wrong" just because you disagree with him on a general basis. That's strikingly similar to those irrational people who think everything that Obama has done is wrong, just because he's a democrat. My republican parents have even insulted the man for killing Bin Laden based on this presumption that Obama can't have done anything right just because they disagree with his liberal views.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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