Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
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18-12-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(18-12-2013 08:20 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 08:08 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I also remember reading my Bible and thinking I had discovered great truths that the Holy Spirit had revealed to me. But, the only problem was, when I shared them with others, they either didn't get them at all, or had a contradictory interpretation.

An unfortunate problem, indeed.

But we all know the proper way to deal with it: burn the heretic. Problem solved!

He he. That has a lot to do with why I started to doubt Christianity. There are just so many interpretations with no way to choose between them.

Same with world religions. There are just too many, and no way to choose between them.
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18-12-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(17-12-2013 10:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 05:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Explain what constitutes hearing/seeing?

Like physical manifestations and audible voices, or seeing visions in dreams and having God speak to you through "feelings"?

Which are you referencing?

Seriously, kc? How the fuck should we know? It's the ones who say that their god talks to them that you need to ask.

I think you misunderstood.

I was asking what the OP qualifies as "seeing" or "hearing".

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18-12-2013, 09:03 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(17-12-2013 10:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 06:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Sorry, I don't have time to type it all out right now, but I will at another time. If you can't wait to learn more about what I believe you can wade through this massive thread to try and find some answers.

It's really huge, though... so good luck if you do.


I don't recall that you gave any detailed description of your experiences in that thread.

You dodged by saying we wouldn't credit it as evidence, which is certainly true.Drinking Beverage

No, I did. I explained my entire experience... now, I just have to find it. Because I don't feel like rewriting it.

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18-12-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
Okay, found it. I've shared this in several threads:

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

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18-12-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(18-12-2013 09:07 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay, found it. I've shared this in several threads:

Evidence for me being elect:

Growing up, I was always embarrassed of Christianity and whenever my parents talked about Jesus. I thought church was silly, and I found the stories nothing more than fantasy.

I finally accepted agnosticism in college as my official belief, and I began to rip Christianity apart with the use of logic and rationality. I would combat Christians on the Internet via forums and use the aforementioned tactics against them to make them look like fools. I was good at it.

Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

Ok, what do you mean by listening for guidance? Did you hear an actual audible voice? Was the voice in your head? Or?

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18-12-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(18-12-2013 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, what do you mean by listening for guidance? Did you hear an actual audible voice? Was the voice in your head? Or?

God speaks to people differently. He speaks to me through feelings. These feelings are confident and without regret. Before my regeneration, I always second guessed everything I did... now, if I get it from God, I just do it and not think about it or dwell on it.

This goes with God giving me my desires.

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18-12-2013, 11:38 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2013 11:42 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
@ kingschosen... What do you do with the fact that many people from mutually exclusive religions make the same claims (that they are in communication with God)?

Is there a group of people that stands out because they are truly in communication with God?
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18-12-2013, 11:40 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(18-12-2013 09:02 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 10:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, kc? How the fuck should we know? It's the ones who say that their god talks to them that you need to ask.

I think you misunderstood.

I was asking what the OP qualifies as "seeing" or "hearing".

My apologies.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(18-12-2013 11:38 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  @ kingschosen... What do you do with the fact that many people from mutually exclusive religions make the same claims (that they are in communication with God)?

Is there a group of people that stands out because they are truly in communication with God?

I apply the "No True Scotsman" concept to it. I believe only the elect can hear from God, and anyone else that claims to hear from God isn't hearing from Him.

Like Joel Osteen... he claims to hear from God and that you should send him money. If it's truly from God, the sender (Osteen) and the receiver (the audience) of the message would be in mutual agreement. Since we know that's not the case, I have serious doubts of inspired messages by Christians.

I wrote something on this called "Feigned Piety". Go here to see it.

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18-12-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
I think that people are just so diluted and want the god or gods to be real so badly that they conjure images sort of like a hysterical pregnancy
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